6 ms·

Drivers will be the hurdle and how open source friendly the SOC is will be down to Apple.

by Zenst 6y ago

api 6y ago
I personally think it would be in Apple's interest to publish the information required for FOSS drivers or even assist with them. It would help them sell more Macs, but more importantly cement their dominance among developers.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  That is wishful thinking - Apple is not known to do anything that can open up their system and breach their walled garden. ARM Macs are designed to turn even the desktops to iPad / iPhones where you have no control or choice.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    This is not remotely true. Apple has had plenty of opportunities over the years to take down the Hackintosh community and they never have. In fact Craig even said they fully supported it. And whilst their Mac devices are secure by default they have always made it possible to weaken the security when needed.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      > Apple has had plenty of opportunities over the years to take down the Hackintosh community and they never have. Why would they bother with it when it doesn't effect their bottom line at all? In fact, it benefits them as these users may like the platform and migrate to it.
- chaosharmonic 6y ago
  Honestly? Strong agree. A huge part of my general distaste for them as a user is rooted in their resistance to standards. (See: Lightning, AirPlay, their fucking keyboard layout that's so shuffled it also breaks default app-level shortcuts that work on every other device and operating system I use...) But to that exact point, if I could get my hands on an ARM Mac Mini, stick Linux onto it, and throw any of a variety of use cases at it? At that power envelope, with Thunderbolt 4, and my own input devices? I would genuinely consider switching away from DIY builds for a while. (...even more so next year, when WiFi 6E and BT5.2 have also trickled out.)
- cpuguy83 6y ago
  This ship already sailed before the Intel Mac days. Apple shutdown all the Mac clones, stopped releasing details about the hardware, etc.
  - skissane 6y ago
    I don’t think Mac clones were really comparable. Mac clones were a threat to Apple’s hardware business. Running alternative operating systems on Apple hardware is not a threat to Apple’s hardware business. Apple has been willing to support non-Apple operating systems on their hardware before - Windows via Boot Camp, MkLinux. (Mobile is a different case, because allowing third party operating systems might threaten their control of software distribution and its tie-in with the hardware; that isn’t the case on Macs since Apple does not mandate their App Store on macOS.)
    - cpuguy83 6y ago
      Right, but this also pretty effectively killed off other OS's on pre-Intel Macs. Look at the BeOS story. They ported to x86 because Apple stopped sharing hardware details.
- threeseed 6y ago
  The number of people who buy a Mac specifically to run Linux is negligible. And I doubt the ROI is there given how substantial the effort would be to port everything across especially the graphics drivers.
jhanschoo 6y ago
Note that even now you will run into issues trying to get proper functionality in Ubuntu out of post ~2015 MacBooks.
- rektide 6y ago
  I really really miss being able to take a work Macbook & run a real OS on it. Fucking tragic. The good world falls. Crap capitalist garbage keeps asserting itself harder & harder.

Drivers will be the hurdle and how open source friendly the SOC is will be down to Apple.

by Zenst 6y ago

Drivers will be the hurdle and how open source friendly the SOC is will be down to Apple.

api 6y ago

I personally think it would be in Apple's interest to publish the information required for FOSS drivers or even assist with them. It would help them sell more Macs, but more importantly cement their dominance among developers.

webmobdev 6y ago
That is wishful thinking - Apple is not known to do anything that can open up their system and breach their walled garden. ARM Macs are designed to turn even the desktops to iPad / iPhones where you have no control or choice.
- threeseed 6y ago
  This is not remotely true. Apple has had plenty of opportunities over the years to take down the Hackintosh community and they never have. In fact Craig even said they fully supported it. And whilst their Mac devices are secure by default they have always made it possible to weaken the security when needed.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    > Apple has had plenty of opportunities over the years to take down the Hackintosh community and they never have. Why would they bother with it when it doesn't effect their bottom line at all? In fact, it benefits them as these users may like the platform and migrate to it.
chaosharmonic 6y ago
Honestly? Strong agree. A huge part of my general distaste for them as a user is rooted in their resistance to standards. (See: Lightning, AirPlay, their fucking keyboard layout that's so shuffled it also breaks default app-level shortcuts that work on every other device and operating system I use...) But to that exact point, if I could get my hands on an ARM Mac Mini, stick Linux onto it, and throw any of a variety of use cases at it? At that power envelope, with Thunderbolt 4, and my own input devices? I would genuinely consider switching away from DIY builds for a while. (...even more so next year, when WiFi 6E and BT5.2 have also trickled out.)
cpuguy83 6y ago
This ship already sailed before the Intel Mac days. Apple shutdown all the Mac clones, stopped releasing details about the hardware, etc.
- skissane 6y ago
  I don’t think Mac clones were really comparable. Mac clones were a threat to Apple’s hardware business. Running alternative operating systems on Apple hardware is not a threat to Apple’s hardware business. Apple has been willing to support non-Apple operating systems on their hardware before - Windows via Boot Camp, MkLinux. (Mobile is a different case, because allowing third party operating systems might threaten their control of software distribution and its tie-in with the hardware; that isn’t the case on Macs since Apple does not mandate their App Store on macOS.)
  - cpuguy83 6y ago
    Right, but this also pretty effectively killed off other OS's on pre-Intel Macs. Look at the BeOS story. They ported to x86 because Apple stopped sharing hardware details.
threeseed 6y ago
The number of people who buy a Mac specifically to run Linux is negligible. And I doubt the ROI is there given how substantial the effort would be to port everything across especially the graphics drivers.

jhanschoo 6y ago

Note that even now you will run into issues trying to get proper functionality in Ubuntu out of post ~2015 MacBooks.

rektide 6y ago
I really really miss being able to take a work Macbook & run a real OS on it. Fucking tragic. The good world falls. Crap capitalist garbage keeps asserting itself harder & harder.