6 ms·

If corporations are entitled to some of the rights of persons, then I'd like some of the rights of corporations. I'll take the asset of my house, without the l

If corporations are entitled to some of the rights of persons, then I'd like some of the rights of corporations. I'll take the asset of my house, without the liability of the outstanding mortgage balance.

dnautics 6y ago
You probably also want to be able to deduct all of your expenses from your taxes.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Just going to set up a double Irish with a Caiman sandwich to avoid paying any taxes.
  - LanceH 6y ago
    No imagination. I'm going to be a film company, get paid millions to work in different places, then have exactly zero profit when all is said and done.
  - wbl 6y ago
    Anne McCaffery lives in Ireland because royalties are taxed at a preferential rate.
    - reillyse 6y ago
      Artistic output is exempt from income tax (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/artists_exemption_from_income_tax.html#:~:text=Income%20earned%20by%20writers%2C%20composers,in%20Ireland%20in%20certain%20circumstances.&text=Earnings%20from%20these%20works%20are,which%20the%20claim%20is%20made https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/inco....)
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Only up to a small amount yearly now. It used to be everything but they changed it a decade ago.
        dbspin 6y ago
        Worth nothing that this 'small amount' is 50,000 euro. Which is almost double the total income of the median fine artist or writer. Sources: Exemption - https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/artists_exemption_from_income_tax.html# https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/inco... Writers salary - https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-500-a-year-career-do-irish-writers-get-paid-enough-1.2965310 https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-500-a-year-care... Artist salary - https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salaries/artist-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.htm https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salaries/artist-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.h...
        disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Sure, but for Anne McCaffrey/many famous authors who moved to Ireland it's a really small amount. I agree with the cap, as people earning more than 50k p.a. from their arts don't need it.
        dbspin 6y ago
        As a writer I do too. There are many issues with the scheme, primarily around the elements of 'writing' which are technically essential to making a living (teaching, talks etc), but not covered in the requirement that income be primarily from writing. That said, it shouldn't be an excuse for very wealthy people to use Ireland as a tax haven. We already get enough of that with the corporate tax rate.
  - mikro2nd 6y ago
    I'm honestly quite surprised that someone hasn't already set up to offer "Tax Havens As A Service" long ago. Click a button, pay $100, and you're incorporated in what's commonly known among the .01% as a "tax-proof structure". Why hasn't this been done yet?
    - pjc50 6y ago
      Like most "exploits as a service", this only works if your volume is small enough to not make it worth shutting you down. The 0.1% get their privileges by being small in number and well-connected enough to deal with legislative retaliation. Once everyone starts bending the rules the rules bend back. This happened in the UK: it was very common for IT contractors to set up companies to get preferential tax rates, until the "IR35" reforms targeted that. Lots of the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories make their livings from tax avoidance; the Paradise Papers caught out a lot of celebrities using their services. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/14/after-successive-offshore-scandals-are-there-signs-of-change-in-isle-of-man https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/14/after-successiv... Look down https://thebanks.eu/compare-countries-by-banking-sector https://thebanks.eu/compare-countries-by-banking-sector and do a rough division of size of assets by size of country, and you can estimate which countries have the biggest tax avoidance industries. Nearly a trillion Euro sitting in the Cayman Islands? Bank soundness "n/a"? Seems legit. Jersey (pop 97,000) and Guernsey (pop 67,000) more assets than Romania (pop 19,000,000)? Seems legit.
      - mikro2nd 6y ago
        I don't think it's solely/mainly a question of volumes/numbers and being sufficiently well connected, though no doubt it is a factor. In my experience the 0.01% are privileged to play by the book, but have an advantage over the rest of us in having access to a whole library of books to choose from, and the money to hire experts in book-selection and lackeys to manage the whole affair on a day-to-day basis. That's the stuff a Tax-Haven-As-Service outfit would have to solve behind the scenes. Most of these tricks involve entities-in-cahoots across multiple (usually at least three) jurisdictions, so I imagine it might take quite a LONG time before the various legal authorities in all relevant jurisdictions get sufficiently coordinated to have effective regulations in place. The evidence that this is the status-quo is that it exists, and has not, to date, been "solved" by any one government. Unfortunately it's just too expensive a solution to justify itself for us proles. eta: Also Alderney (pop. 2000-ish)
- trhway 6y ago
  you declare your daughter a consultant and deduct all the money you pay to her as consulting fees. She uses the money to get haircut, lunch, dresses, etc. and deducts it from her consulting income as business expenses.
  - interestica 6y ago
    And her mom is a hair stylist, cook, and seamstress.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    In the UK, had an accountant who did something similar for us. Want to avoid a bunch of taxes on large landscaped property? Get a few cows and goats and classify it as a "farm" property. Transportation charges and date-night dinners? Business expense. Western tax laws were a joke to me as an outsider, heavily geared towards the haves. But hey, I was contributing to the economy too.
    - noja 6y ago
      fakedang, that won't survive an HMRC audit.
      - nikanj 6y ago
        Don't know about the UK, but at least in Canada setting up a fake farm is easy and popular https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/too-easy-for-fake-farmers-to-dodge-tax-metro-vancouver-told/ https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/too-easy-for-fake-farmers-t...
      - fakedang 6y ago
        Easily did for 4 years. A lot of it was perfectly legal as long as it wasn't overboard (funding grocery shopping as business expenses for example), wasn't recurring and wasn't too high without reason (funding your wedding as a business expense for instance). The UK tax laws are a joke. As told to me by multiple HMRC auditors, and my accountant (who is funnily a former HMRC auditor). The US' laws are an even bigger joke. After incorporating on the mainland, I've found that Swiss/Liechtensteiner/Luxembourgian tax laws are actually pretty decent and exacting, in spite of them being criticized as a tax haven and all. Also, was neighbours with a ton of Arab guys in Knightsbridge who used to offset the risk of being caught (since they were into active money laundering), by donating to the Tories. Disgusting, but it is what it is.
- bawolff 6y ago
  You jest, but as an unincorporated sole proprietorship (aka if you do random freelance work on the internet without making a company) you can deduct all your business expenses (including the part of your apt rent that you used for doing the profit making activity) just as a normal individual.
  - therealx 6y ago
    Sadly (or not), the deductable changed and it's not as worthwhile unless you really go for the gold. I heard maybe it changed with recent laws?
    - jepler 6y ago
      This is obviously not tax advice, but I think the earlier poster is referring to reductions to AGI that are on "schedule C" titled "profit or loss from business". Some tax language seems to refer to these as "deductions", but they are distinct from the "itemized" or "standard" deduction. Schedule C goes to Schedule 1 goes to 1040 line 7a. The standard or itemized deduction is on line 9. The Qualified Business Income Deduction on line 10 is another AGI-reducing gimme for people who get 1099-income distinct from the standard or itemized deduction. And don't forget, your eligibility for Marketplace plans including subsidies is based on your (Modified)AGI, not your gross income, which can be a costly mistake (Based on what I understand now, in 2020 my household would have been able to get a marketplace plan with subsidy but we didn't due to not understanding the income guidelines). (note: I may have mixed referring to 2019 and 2020 tax forms here, particularly wher I cited line numbers)
    - bawolff 6y ago
      Not tax advice, iana accountant, etc. I think in canada (where i live), you can just deduct all the business expenses (things that are part personal like rent have to be the reasonable porportion related to the business). You can't deduct more than the income from the business in a year, but you can carry over your expenses to the next year if you have more expenses than income.
- chmod775 6y ago
  Ah yes. Good old "Your Name Inc." that also charitably houses and feeds its only employee in their office space. I'm only half joking because I'd like to see that tested in court.
  - cik 6y ago
    It's already been tested in court - in several jurisdictions. It's fine for your (or any) corporation to house you, but you can't get a material impact from it. Either you have to pay market rent, or claim the taxable benefit.

dnautics 6y ago

You probably also want to be able to deduct all of your expenses from your taxes.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Just going to set up a double Irish with a Caiman sandwich to avoid paying any taxes.
- LanceH 6y ago
  No imagination. I'm going to be a film company, get paid millions to work in different places, then have exactly zero profit when all is said and done.
- wbl 6y ago
  Anne McCaffery lives in Ireland because royalties are taxed at a preferential rate.
  - reillyse 6y ago
    Artistic output is exempt from income tax (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/artists_exemption_from_income_tax.html#:~:text=Income%20earned%20by%20writers%2C%20composers,in%20Ireland%20in%20certain%20circumstances.&text=Earnings%20from%20these%20works%20are,which%20the%20claim%20is%20made https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/inco....)
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      Only up to a small amount yearly now. It used to be everything but they changed it a decade ago.
      - dbspin 6y ago
        Worth nothing that this 'small amount' is 50,000 euro. Which is almost double the total income of the median fine artist or writer. Sources: Exemption - https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/artists_exemption_from_income_tax.html# https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/inco... Writers salary - https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-500-a-year-career-do-irish-writers-get-paid-enough-1.2965310 https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-500-a-year-care... Artist salary - https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salaries/artist-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.htm https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salaries/artist-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.h...
        disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Sure, but for Anne McCaffrey/many famous authors who moved to Ireland it's a really small amount. I agree with the cap, as people earning more than 50k p.a. from their arts don't need it.
        dbspin 6y ago
        As a writer I do too. There are many issues with the scheme, primarily around the elements of 'writing' which are technically essential to making a living (teaching, talks etc), but not covered in the requirement that income be primarily from writing. That said, it shouldn't be an excuse for very wealthy people to use Ireland as a tax haven. We already get enough of that with the corporate tax rate.
- mikro2nd 6y ago
  I'm honestly quite surprised that someone hasn't already set up to offer "Tax Havens As A Service" long ago. Click a button, pay $100, and you're incorporated in what's commonly known among the .01% as a "tax-proof structure". Why hasn't this been done yet?
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Like most "exploits as a service", this only works if your volume is small enough to not make it worth shutting you down. The 0.1% get their privileges by being small in number and well-connected enough to deal with legislative retaliation. Once everyone starts bending the rules the rules bend back. This happened in the UK: it was very common for IT contractors to set up companies to get preferential tax rates, until the "IR35" reforms targeted that. Lots of the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories make their livings from tax avoidance; the Paradise Papers caught out a lot of celebrities using their services. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/14/after-successive-offshore-scandals-are-there-signs-of-change-in-isle-of-man https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/14/after-successiv... Look down https://thebanks.eu/compare-countries-by-banking-sector https://thebanks.eu/compare-countries-by-banking-sector and do a rough division of size of assets by size of country, and you can estimate which countries have the biggest tax avoidance industries. Nearly a trillion Euro sitting in the Cayman Islands? Bank soundness "n/a"? Seems legit. Jersey (pop 97,000) and Guernsey (pop 67,000) more assets than Romania (pop 19,000,000)? Seems legit.
    - mikro2nd 6y ago
      I don't think it's solely/mainly a question of volumes/numbers and being sufficiently well connected, though no doubt it is a factor. In my experience the 0.01% are privileged to play by the book, but have an advantage over the rest of us in having access to a whole library of books to choose from, and the money to hire experts in book-selection and lackeys to manage the whole affair on a day-to-day basis. That's the stuff a Tax-Haven-As-Service outfit would have to solve behind the scenes. Most of these tricks involve entities-in-cahoots across multiple (usually at least three) jurisdictions, so I imagine it might take quite a LONG time before the various legal authorities in all relevant jurisdictions get sufficiently coordinated to have effective regulations in place. The evidence that this is the status-quo is that it exists, and has not, to date, been "solved" by any one government. Unfortunately it's just too expensive a solution to justify itself for us proles. eta: Also Alderney (pop. 2000-ish)
trhway 6y ago
you declare your daughter a consultant and deduct all the money you pay to her as consulting fees. She uses the money to get haircut, lunch, dresses, etc. and deducts it from her consulting income as business expenses.
- interestica 6y ago
  And her mom is a hair stylist, cook, and seamstress.
- fakedang 6y ago
  In the UK, had an accountant who did something similar for us. Want to avoid a bunch of taxes on large landscaped property? Get a few cows and goats and classify it as a "farm" property. Transportation charges and date-night dinners? Business expense. Western tax laws were a joke to me as an outsider, heavily geared towards the haves. But hey, I was contributing to the economy too.
  - noja 6y ago
    fakedang, that won't survive an HMRC audit.
    - nikanj 6y ago
      Don't know about the UK, but at least in Canada setting up a fake farm is easy and popular https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/too-easy-for-fake-farmers-to-dodge-tax-metro-vancouver-told/ https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/too-easy-for-fake-farmers-t...
    - fakedang 6y ago
      Easily did for 4 years. A lot of it was perfectly legal as long as it wasn't overboard (funding grocery shopping as business expenses for example), wasn't recurring and wasn't too high without reason (funding your wedding as a business expense for instance). The UK tax laws are a joke. As told to me by multiple HMRC auditors, and my accountant (who is funnily a former HMRC auditor). The US' laws are an even bigger joke. After incorporating on the mainland, I've found that Swiss/Liechtensteiner/Luxembourgian tax laws are actually pretty decent and exacting, in spite of them being criticized as a tax haven and all. Also, was neighbours with a ton of Arab guys in Knightsbridge who used to offset the risk of being caught (since they were into active money laundering), by donating to the Tories. Disgusting, but it is what it is.
bawolff 6y ago
You jest, but as an unincorporated sole proprietorship (aka if you do random freelance work on the internet without making a company) you can deduct all your business expenses (including the part of your apt rent that you used for doing the profit making activity) just as a normal individual.
- therealx 6y ago
  Sadly (or not), the deductable changed and it's not as worthwhile unless you really go for the gold. I heard maybe it changed with recent laws?
  - jepler 6y ago
    This is obviously not tax advice, but I think the earlier poster is referring to reductions to AGI that are on "schedule C" titled "profit or loss from business". Some tax language seems to refer to these as "deductions", but they are distinct from the "itemized" or "standard" deduction. Schedule C goes to Schedule 1 goes to 1040 line 7a. The standard or itemized deduction is on line 9. The Qualified Business Income Deduction on line 10 is another AGI-reducing gimme for people who get 1099-income distinct from the standard or itemized deduction. And don't forget, your eligibility for Marketplace plans including subsidies is based on your (Modified)AGI, not your gross income, which can be a costly mistake (Based on what I understand now, in 2020 my household would have been able to get a marketplace plan with subsidy but we didn't due to not understanding the income guidelines). (note: I may have mixed referring to 2019 and 2020 tax forms here, particularly wher I cited line numbers)
  - bawolff 6y ago
    Not tax advice, iana accountant, etc. I think in canada (where i live), you can just deduct all the business expenses (things that are part personal like rent have to be the reasonable porportion related to the business). You can't deduct more than the income from the business in a year, but you can carry over your expenses to the next year if you have more expenses than income.
chmod775 6y ago
Ah yes. Good old "Your Name Inc." that also charitably houses and feeds its only employee in their office space. I'm only half joking because I'd like to see that tested in court.
- cik 6y ago
  It's already been tested in court - in several jurisdictions. It's fine for your (or any) corporation to house you, but you can't get a material impact from it. Either you have to pay market rent, or claim the taxable benefit.