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Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. "Fore

Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. "Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States. It very obviously got us into WW-1 (the British -a largely untold but very obvious info ops campaign for something that served no US national interest), it got us into the middle east (nothing the US does there happens but for foreign interference from Saudis, Emirates and Israelis, who overtly bribe our think tanks and politicians), and it fairly obviously got us our "free trade" policies which gutted the US manufacturing capabilities to the point we can't make enough surgical masks in the US to protect our people (thanks, China). None of the above happened because of dipshits saying things on twitter or facebook or sharing Russia Today articles. None of the above will go away if the CIA, the political center and the tech oligarchs censor the internet to protect us from meaningless internet bugaboos. It's a naked power grab, and anyone who supports it because of "muh democracy" is a collaborator with tyranny.

zozbot234 6y ago
> to the point we can't make enough surgical masks in the US to protect our people Fake News. The U.S. used to have a huge stockpile of surgical and N95 masks as part of their pandemic preparedness plans. The stockpile was gradually depleted and not replenished adequately. It was pure complacency on the part of government; please let's not blame trade openness for this.
AntiImperialist 6y ago
"Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States Agree. Not as effective as today. But yes. Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. Agree. I think Democracy has failed because the tools of propaganda have become very effective. Democracy died in the U.S. a long time ago... the Deep State was formed and it had a monopoly on propaganda, not only for keeping the citizens in line but also using it to control many other countries. The major competitor was Soviet Union, which wasn't very successful for long. Fast forward to today, there are many countries which are powerful enough and have competitive tools for propaganda. While many countries are well equipped for offence, only China has very good defense against it. If other countries don't take actions to strengthen their defense, it's going to be very difficult for them.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  You're mostly right in everything, except that 'the Deep State' is not that deep and is not that much part of the state - most US propaganda is actually pretty transparently done by the corporate sector. We call it PR and marketing now, but it is exactly propaganda, used to great effectiveness everywhere in the world. Teb other major leg of US propaganda is the entertainment industry, which is also extremely effective at selling grand narratives, and has a very favorable lens from which it always presents the US and its allies, whether it be in gaming, mass market films, or even critical darlings (see the fawning reception the extremely pro-American, pro-militaristic 'The Hurt Locker' got everywhere in the critical press).
  - AntiImperialist 6y ago
    most US propaganda is actually pretty transparently done by the corporate sector Agree, but I'm not talking about most. I understand there is "cholesterol bad" or "anti-vaxx, stupid, amirite?" from pharmaceuticals or "almonds make penis hard" from nutrition "science" funded by the food industry. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Deep State, which is comprised of ex-military, the CIA and weapons industry people. They're pretty deep into everything.
tsimionescu 6y ago
This doesn't take away too much from your general point, which I agree with, but I think this is important to mention in itself: > ["foreign interference"] fairly obviously got us our "free trade" policies which gutted the US manufacturing capabilities [...] (thanks, China). 'free trade' is definitely not a product of outside interference, it is a product of American company owners' interests - the easier it is to own manufacturing plants in other countries without giving up your IP (the key items of most 'free trade' agreements), the easier it becomes for corporations to manufacture everything where labor is cheapest.
MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
> Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. David Atkins, Regional Director, CA Dems / Elected DNC Member: "No seriously...how do you deprogram 75 million people? Where do you start? Fox? Facebook? We have to start thinking in terms of post-WWII Germany or Japan. Or the failures of Reconstruction in the South." [0] [0] https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1328898661569363969 https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1328898661569363969

zozbot234 6y ago

> to the point we can't make enough surgical masks in the US to protect our people Fake News. The U.S. used to have a huge stockpile of surgical and N95 masks as part of their pandemic preparedness plans. The stockpile was gradually depleted and not replenished adequately. It was pure complacency on the part of government; please let's not blame trade openness for this.

AntiImperialist 6y ago

"Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States Agree. Not as effective as today. But yes. Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. Agree. I think Democracy has failed because the tools of propaganda have become very effective. Democracy died in the U.S. a long time ago... the Deep State was formed and it had a monopoly on propaganda, not only for keeping the citizens in line but also using it to control many other countries. The major competitor was Soviet Union, which wasn't very successful for long. Fast forward to today, there are many countries which are powerful enough and have competitive tools for propaganda. While many countries are well equipped for offence, only China has very good defense against it. If other countries don't take actions to strengthen their defense, it's going to be very difficult for them.

tsimionescu 6y ago
You're mostly right in everything, except that 'the Deep State' is not that deep and is not that much part of the state - most US propaganda is actually pretty transparently done by the corporate sector. We call it PR and marketing now, but it is exactly propaganda, used to great effectiveness everywhere in the world. Teb other major leg of US propaganda is the entertainment industry, which is also extremely effective at selling grand narratives, and has a very favorable lens from which it always presents the US and its allies, whether it be in gaming, mass market films, or even critical darlings (see the fawning reception the extremely pro-American, pro-militaristic 'The Hurt Locker' got everywhere in the critical press).
- AntiImperialist 6y ago
  most US propaganda is actually pretty transparently done by the corporate sector Agree, but I'm not talking about most. I understand there is "cholesterol bad" or "anti-vaxx, stupid, amirite?" from pharmaceuticals or "almonds make penis hard" from nutrition "science" funded by the food industry. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Deep State, which is comprised of ex-military, the CIA and weapons industry people. They're pretty deep into everything.

tsimionescu 6y ago

This doesn't take away too much from your general point, which I agree with, but I think this is important to mention in itself: > ["foreign interference"] fairly obviously got us our "free trade" policies which gutted the US manufacturing capabilities [...] (thanks, China). 'free trade' is definitely not a product of outside interference, it is a product of American company owners' interests - the easier it is to own manufacturing plants in other countries without giving up your IP (the key items of most 'free trade' agreements), the easier it becomes for corporations to manufacture everything where labor is cheapest.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago

> Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. David Atkins, Regional Director, CA Dems / Elected DNC Member: "No seriously...how do you deprogram 75 million people? Where do you start? Fox? Facebook? We have to start thinking in terms of post-WWII Germany or Japan. Or the failures of Reconstruction in the South." [0] [0] https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1328898661569363969 https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1328898661569363969