3 ms·

> When you look at other services that are just doing payment/download, it's far cheaper than 30%. Except if you look at the link that compares all similar sto

> When you look at other services that are just doing payment/download, it's far cheaper than 30%. Except if you look at the link that compares all similar stores. It is around about 30% except for EPIC. EPIC can afford such a low rate because they are flush with cash from Fortnite and Unreal Engine dominates the professional game engine market. EPIC are trying to buy their way into the market, if it works then steam and other game stores will have to lower their rates. > It's not absurd. People still made apps when the market was a lot smaller. People make apps for android. If revenue is greater than cost, then apps will get made. And a cut like that would remove a lot of competition, so the actual drop in pay wouldn't be as extreme. We weren't talking about market. We were talking about the revenue split. It was never 90% rate. Apple has had the 30% rate since 2011. Npbody had a problem with the 30% rate back then. Why is it suddenly such an issue? > But okay, what if I said 75% instead? If you get 3x the market share while getting paid 25% of gross revenue, you actually make more money than if you were paid 70% on 1x market share. So there would absolutely be viable apps for some developers. But at the same time, if Apple took a 75% cut that would be unreasonable. If people were happy with the arrangement then it is fine. So yes. However nobody would release anything to the app store back in 2011 if it was that high (70% to apple). > They wouldn't if Apple was really committed. The app already exists, removing it would mean less money. If everyone did it all at the same time as a protest. Apple would have to respond and everyone certainly would. > Even with a better rate, Android's app payment market is smaller. It wouldn't do enough to make the apps there significantly better, and the number of people willing to switch off iphone for the marginal difference wouldn't do anything. So you are saying paying the 30% on the App store is worth it as you get a larger paying market. Which is what makes the 30% reasonable because it is worth it.

Dylan16807 6y ago
> Except if you look at the link that compares all similar stores. It is around about 30% except for EPIC. Your list is companies being paid an affiliate rate. If I start linking companies that don't do affiliate stuff, they charge a lot less. Which is to say that 30% could be a reasonable amount if you had any choice in the matter of what services you want to purchase from apple. > It was never 90% rate. Apple has had the 30% rate since 2011. All that matters is revenue vs. cost. Apple's app store brings in about 80 billion a year right now. In 2013 it was 10 billion. People made apps in 2013, even though 70% of 10 billion is less than 10% of 80 billion. They'd make apps for 10% of 80 billion and they'd definitely make apps for 25% of 80 billion. > If everyone did it all at the same time as a protest. Apple would have to respond and everyone certainly would. Everyone standing up and refusing those billions of dollars in solidarity is more outlandish than anything I've said. > So you are saying paying the 30% on the App store is worth it as you get a larger paying market. Which is what makes the 30% reasonable because it is worth it. It's much easier for a fee to be "worth it" than to be "reasonable". If an airline started charging a fee of $5 for "Breathable air or whatever, screw you.", it would still be worth buying a ticket, but the fee would not be reasonable.
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  > Your list is companies being paid an affiliate rate. If I start linking companies that don't do affiliate stuff, they charge a lot less. I listed like for like companies. > In 2013 it was 10 billion. > People made apps in 2013, even though 70% of 10 billion is less than 10% of 80 billion. > They'd make apps for 10% of 80 billion and they'd definitely make apps for 25% of 80 billion. I don't think you understand how percentages work. You are comparing the total amount of revenue available to the revenue share per purchase. That just isn't a valid way of comparing the two. > Everyone standing up and refusing those billions of dollars in solidarity is more outlandish than anything I've said. If they raised the rate soo high that it was unreasonable then yes the would be a mass exodus. > It's much easier for a fee to be "worth it" than to be "reasonable". Now you are just playing semantics. I think we will leave this here.
pja 6y ago
My personal comparison is between the HumbleBundle store and the HumbleBundle payments widget. The rake on the former, where HumbleBundle brings the customer? 25% The rake on the latter, where the game dev embeds the widget on their own website & HB handles the payments infrastructure for them? 5% For App devs able to drive customer engagement directly themselves, Apple is effectively taking an extra ~20% of profit for themselves. Apple is treating every sale as if they were the ones delivering the customer. For $1 shovelware Apps this seems fair enough. For franchises where the Dev has an already established customer base through their own marketing efforts it seems completely egregious.
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  That all might be all true. But people willingly sign up to it.

Dylan16807 6y ago

> Except if you look at the link that compares all similar stores. It is around about 30% except for EPIC. Your list is companies being paid an affiliate rate. If I start linking companies that don't do affiliate stuff, they charge a lot less. Which is to say that 30% could be a reasonable amount if you had any choice in the matter of what services you want to purchase from apple. > It was never 90% rate. Apple has had the 30% rate since 2011. All that matters is revenue vs. cost. Apple's app store brings in about 80 billion a year right now. In 2013 it was 10 billion. People made apps in 2013, even though 70% of 10 billion is less than 10% of 80 billion. They'd make apps for 10% of 80 billion and they'd definitely make apps for 25% of 80 billion. > If everyone did it all at the same time as a protest. Apple would have to respond and everyone certainly would. Everyone standing up and refusing those billions of dollars in solidarity is more outlandish than anything I've said. > So you are saying paying the 30% on the App store is worth it as you get a larger paying market. Which is what makes the 30% reasonable because it is worth it. It's much easier for a fee to be "worth it" than to be "reasonable". If an airline started charging a fee of $5 for "Breathable air or whatever, screw you.", it would still be worth buying a ticket, but the fee would not be reasonable.

forest_dweller 6y ago
> Your list is companies being paid an affiliate rate. If I start linking companies that don't do affiliate stuff, they charge a lot less. I listed like for like companies. > In 2013 it was 10 billion. > People made apps in 2013, even though 70% of 10 billion is less than 10% of 80 billion. > They'd make apps for 10% of 80 billion and they'd definitely make apps for 25% of 80 billion. I don't think you understand how percentages work. You are comparing the total amount of revenue available to the revenue share per purchase. That just isn't a valid way of comparing the two. > Everyone standing up and refusing those billions of dollars in solidarity is more outlandish than anything I've said. If they raised the rate soo high that it was unreasonable then yes the would be a mass exodus. > It's much easier for a fee to be "worth it" than to be "reasonable". Now you are just playing semantics. I think we will leave this here.

pja 6y ago

My personal comparison is between the HumbleBundle store and the HumbleBundle payments widget. The rake on the former, where HumbleBundle brings the customer? 25% The rake on the latter, where the game dev embeds the widget on their own website & HB handles the payments infrastructure for them? 5% For App devs able to drive customer engagement directly themselves, Apple is effectively taking an extra ~20% of profit for themselves. Apple is treating every sale as if they were the ones delivering the customer. For $1 shovelware Apps this seems fair enough. For franchises where the Dev has an already established customer base through their own marketing efforts it seems completely egregious.

forest_dweller 6y ago
That all might be all true. But people willingly sign up to it.