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”I’m sure your success rate will improve then” I think you are wrong. I don’t have a CS degree, I don’t have top brand college or employer. You also assume wr

by soneca 6y ago

”I’m sure your success rate will improve then” I think you are wrong. I don’t have a CS degree, I don’t have top brand college or employer. You also assume wrong that I didn’t dedicated myself to apply to specific jobs where I was a very good fit. I did that. And it didn’t got me offers. If you tell me more about your profile, I am sure I can pinpoint why you get 100% success rate and I don’t. I am pretty sure it is not for the reasons you mentioned.

comprev 6y ago
Your comments echo what many who are currently employed say. When the shoe is on the other foot though, and unemployed, you can almost guarantee they will have applied to 100+ roles!
- Balgair 6y ago
  Oh man, it's in the thousands every time I apply. I used to keep a spreadsheet of it, but that just got depressing. Job searches are quite painful. (Note that I'm in biotech and real engineering, not SW)
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    >real engineering, <fire emoji>. Some schools have tried to make Software Engineering actual engineering eg: https://www.apega.ca/apply/membership/exams/technical/software-engineering https://www.apega.ca/apply/membership/exams/technical/softwa...
capableweb 6y ago
I don't have any CS degree, nor studied at any college, nor worked at any famous employer neither. So probably irrelevant. I sure knows that when I'm doing the hiring, I rarely if ever read what colleges or what previous companies the candidate worked on. All that matters is what their experience is, what they learned so far, what they tell me they wanna do in the future and how they are as a person. > You also assume wrong that I didn’t dedicated myself to apply to specific jobs Yeah, that's my fault, sorry about that. It's hard for me to imagine how you can have time to send out 250+ applications and still have a dedicated cover letter and well-researched application for each one of them. While I don't know how the 250+ companies you've applied to are thinking, I can share how I think, when trying to hire someone for a position. And from your advice, only "good public sample of your code" and "clear explanations and thought process" would be something that I would care about. The rest of your advice are not only not relevant, but some are even outright harmful. Good writing absolutely helps someone (in my eyes) to be more fitting for any type of position. My advice to job seekers would also be to look for advice regarding getting hired by either people who have been hired, consistently so, or by the people who are doing the hiring. While it could be helpful, chances are that people who haven't got a high success rate at getting hired, aren't able to give you good advice.
- watwut 6y ago
  > I sure knows that when I'm doing the hiring, I rarely if ever read what colleges or what previous companies the candidate worked on. All that matters is what their experience is, what they learned so far, what they tell me they wanna do in the future and how they are as a person. You are not the only hiring manager. I have seen decision makers openly read college name or even high school name and use that information to judge candidate. I am talking about people who did it very openly, I am pretty sure that there are also people who don't broadcast it and are still affected by that. Most of it was "bonus" for someone with known school, but I have seen also negative judgement.
- derangedHorse 6y ago
  Soneca said that they dedicated themselves to applying to specific jobs not all jobs, so your comment saying it’s hard to imagine them applying to 250 jobs makes no sense. And it’s also false that someone who gets hired a lot can accurately give advice on what got them hired unless they personally ask everyone who was involved in the hiring decision. The employer, compensation, and social capital of the applicant may play a role as well. I think you may be too focused on proving OP wrong to ask about more factors that could be affecting their results because there are way too many things that come into play (from when an employer gets an application to the interview and offer) to generalize.
- soneca 6y ago
  Not all 250 applications are in the same time frame. I would that the first 4 to 6 weeks I was applying just like you said. Selecting very specific companies and creating higher quality applications. Only when it seemed to be going nowhere I made it a numbers game. And that worked for me. About your profile, I was not talking about credentials only. The fact that you are in position to hire someone tells me you are not a junior developer. The hiring market for junior vs senior is very different. If you are a senior/principal/staff/tech lead fullstack, you can choose where to work. If you happen to know something very specific, that helps too. I have 3 years of experience only with Javascript on the frontend. It is not the same market as you probably.
ddek 6y ago
Hmm. I don't agree with you. My degree is chemistry from a good-not-great institution. Since getting into SE, I've progressed to technical leadership very rapidly. I have dedicated myself to applying for jobs, but it's not that much work. It's about making sure you advertise matching strengths. I make sure my CV only has the minimum information needed to sell this. Then only job of my CV is to get a callback. After that, it comes down to my interviewing. I also have an extraordinarily high success rate. I've applied to 8 SE jobs in my career. 7 of those led to interviews, 4 to jobs. Of the three interviews, 2 of them I chose not to progress with (i.e. they didn't reject me, I rejected them). Maybe my strength has been applying to realistic opportunities. My first jobs were low paying roles in non-tech companies. Remember that your strongest selling point is your most recent experience. As a fresh graduate, your university matters the most. As soon as you have your first job, your experience here will dictate your next step. Since my first job, I still get asked about how I transitioned from chemistry to SE, but the tone has changed. People don't expect me to justify the change, they want to hear about the similarities, differences, and strengths that have translated. It's become one of my favorite interview questions to answer now.
- user5994461 6y ago
  It seems you're on your first job in tech? You were lucky to get a position out of your first batch of applications. >>> My first jobs were low paying roles in non-tech companies. Strong hint that a major factor in you getting the job was that you were cheap and that the companies were struggling to fill the position. Expect the next jobs to be get exponentially harder to get as you try to find a job that pays more and companies have much higher expectations. P.S. The poster was applying to remote jobs which are orders of magnitude more competitive to get. It's almost a miracle he even got an offer as a new graduate.
  - soneca 6y ago
    I am not a new graduate. I am 41, learned to code when I was 37. I still am in a junior position though, but not first job in tech, nor young.
bonestamp2 6y ago
The problem is you're "applying" for jobs. Those applications almost always get filtered out by terrible decision makers (AI, HR, etc). Instead of applying for jobs, you need to network for jobs. Part of your research about the job is figuring out who in the company will be your manager and getting your resume directly to them. People are often willing to help each other make helpful introductions, so check linkedin to see who you know at that company or at least your closest contact and then contact that person and ask for help getting your resume to the right person. This is what they're talking about when they say most people get jobs through people they know. It's more work than simply applying, and that's why you can only afford the time to do it with 4-5 jobs. Even still, it's far more effective than applying for hundreds of jobs.

by soneca 6y ago

comprev 6y ago

Your comments echo what many who are currently employed say. When the shoe is on the other foot though, and unemployed, you can almost guarantee they will have applied to 100+ roles!

Balgair 6y ago
Oh man, it's in the thousands every time I apply. I used to keep a spreadsheet of it, but that just got depressing. Job searches are quite painful. (Note that I'm in biotech and real engineering, not SW)
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  >real engineering, <fire emoji>. Some schools have tried to make Software Engineering actual engineering eg: https://www.apega.ca/apply/membership/exams/technical/software-engineering https://www.apega.ca/apply/membership/exams/technical/softwa...

capableweb 6y ago

I don't have any CS degree, nor studied at any college, nor worked at any famous employer neither. So probably irrelevant. I sure knows that when I'm doing the hiring, I rarely if ever read what colleges or what previous companies the candidate worked on. All that matters is what their experience is, what they learned so far, what they tell me they wanna do in the future and how they are as a person. > You also assume wrong that I didn’t dedicated myself to apply to specific jobs Yeah, that's my fault, sorry about that. It's hard for me to imagine how you can have time to send out 250+ applications and still have a dedicated cover letter and well-researched application for each one of them. While I don't know how the 250+ companies you've applied to are thinking, I can share how I think, when trying to hire someone for a position. And from your advice, only "good public sample of your code" and "clear explanations and thought process" would be something that I would care about. The rest of your advice are not only not relevant, but some are even outright harmful. Good writing absolutely helps someone (in my eyes) to be more fitting for any type of position. My advice to job seekers would also be to look for advice regarding getting hired by either people who have been hired, consistently so, or by the people who are doing the hiring. While it could be helpful, chances are that people who haven't got a high success rate at getting hired, aren't able to give you good advice.

watwut 6y ago
> I sure knows that when I'm doing the hiring, I rarely if ever read what colleges or what previous companies the candidate worked on. All that matters is what their experience is, what they learned so far, what they tell me they wanna do in the future and how they are as a person. You are not the only hiring manager. I have seen decision makers openly read college name or even high school name and use that information to judge candidate. I am talking about people who did it very openly, I am pretty sure that there are also people who don't broadcast it and are still affected by that. Most of it was "bonus" for someone with known school, but I have seen also negative judgement.
derangedHorse 6y ago
Soneca said that they dedicated themselves to applying to specific jobs not all jobs, so your comment saying it’s hard to imagine them applying to 250 jobs makes no sense. And it’s also false that someone who gets hired a lot can accurately give advice on what got them hired unless they personally ask everyone who was involved in the hiring decision. The employer, compensation, and social capital of the applicant may play a role as well. I think you may be too focused on proving OP wrong to ask about more factors that could be affecting their results because there are way too many things that come into play (from when an employer gets an application to the interview and offer) to generalize.
soneca 6y ago
Not all 250 applications are in the same time frame. I would that the first 4 to 6 weeks I was applying just like you said. Selecting very specific companies and creating higher quality applications. Only when it seemed to be going nowhere I made it a numbers game. And that worked for me. About your profile, I was not talking about credentials only. The fact that you are in position to hire someone tells me you are not a junior developer. The hiring market for junior vs senior is very different. If you are a senior/principal/staff/tech lead fullstack, you can choose where to work. If you happen to know something very specific, that helps too. I have 3 years of experience only with Javascript on the frontend. It is not the same market as you probably.

ddek 6y ago

Hmm. I don't agree with you. My degree is chemistry from a good-not-great institution. Since getting into SE, I've progressed to technical leadership very rapidly. I have dedicated myself to applying for jobs, but it's not that much work. It's about making sure you advertise matching strengths. I make sure my CV only has the minimum information needed to sell this. Then only job of my CV is to get a callback. After that, it comes down to my interviewing. I also have an extraordinarily high success rate. I've applied to 8 SE jobs in my career. 7 of those led to interviews, 4 to jobs. Of the three interviews, 2 of them I chose not to progress with (i.e. they didn't reject me, I rejected them). Maybe my strength has been applying to realistic opportunities. My first jobs were low paying roles in non-tech companies. Remember that your strongest selling point is your most recent experience. As a fresh graduate, your university matters the most. As soon as you have your first job, your experience here will dictate your next step. Since my first job, I still get asked about how I transitioned from chemistry to SE, but the tone has changed. People don't expect me to justify the change, they want to hear about the similarities, differences, and strengths that have translated. It's become one of my favorite interview questions to answer now.

user5994461 6y ago
It seems you're on your first job in tech? You were lucky to get a position out of your first batch of applications. >>> My first jobs were low paying roles in non-tech companies. Strong hint that a major factor in you getting the job was that you were cheap and that the companies were struggling to fill the position. Expect the next jobs to be get exponentially harder to get as you try to find a job that pays more and companies have much higher expectations. P.S. The poster was applying to remote jobs which are orders of magnitude more competitive to get. It's almost a miracle he even got an offer as a new graduate.
- soneca 6y ago
  I am not a new graduate. I am 41, learned to code when I was 37. I still am in a junior position though, but not first job in tech, nor young.

bonestamp2 6y ago

The problem is you're "applying" for jobs. Those applications almost always get filtered out by terrible decision makers (AI, HR, etc). Instead of applying for jobs, you need to network for jobs. Part of your research about the job is figuring out who in the company will be your manager and getting your resume directly to them. People are often willing to help each other make helpful introductions, so check linkedin to see who you know at that company or at least your closest contact and then contact that person and ask for help getting your resume to the right person. This is what they're talking about when they say most people get jobs through people they know. It's more work than simply applying, and that's why you can only afford the time to do it with 4-5 jobs. Even still, it's far more effective than applying for hundreds of jobs.