5 ms·

I can't help but draw a parallel to computer games. I find myself buying computer games less and less for this exact reason. If I get the game off a torrent, I

by pacemkr 15y ago

I can't help but draw a parallel to computer games. I find myself buying computer games less and less for this exact reason. If I get the game off a torrent, I will have a better experience. Every time I sit down to play a game I actually purchased, I feel cheated: "insert the disk, connect to the internet, and jump through this hoop please." How about the $60 I just payed? Not proof enough? Piracy is the publishers problem; they insist on making it mine. In fact, I buy more and more Indie games for this reason, even though I don't play them that much. I just like the fact that some still have the balls to offer their work DRM free to ensure a good experience for the paying customer.

earbitscom 15y ago
Yeah, I'm not a big gamer but it seems very similar. The simple fact is, a percentage of people will break the law and steal these things, and many of those people take pride in doing it when it's more difficult to accomplish. Meanwhile, the honest people just want to buy the product and enjoy it, and we're constantly penalized, even though the efforts of these initiatives rarely make a big impact on theft.
benologist 15y ago
Between Steam and iTunes (and equiv for Android) there's not much disk inserting and stuff to be done anymore. I will say some games are utter shite though with requiring internet - like C&C4 where the game is deliberately married to it and doesn't run without it.
seabee 15y ago
This is true when you buy retail, but I find it hard to begrudge Steam. I can buy a game and have it ready to play within the hour. And when I go to the parents' house, I can install the games I bought onto their computer. It's not without its issues, but at least Steam offers added value with its DRM; more than you can say for EA or Ubisoft.
- pacemkr 15y ago
  I still play games I bought ten years ago. Can you definitively say that the same will be true for content you purchase using Steam? What about 20 years from now? The value of your purchase is now directly tied to the success of the company. In other words, their choice of using DRM is taking actual value away from you. Arguably, a pirate wont have these issues.
  - linead 15y ago
    I never liked this argument. If you weigh up the disadvantage of the possibility of Steam going under in the future and your games being rendered unplayable with the advantages of instant updating, single social interface and ease of delivery that Steam provides I like to think that it's a good example of the consumer winning. To me it's a bit like suggesting that you should just photocopy a book rather than buying it because if you buy it the pages may wear out one day.
  - alex_c 15y ago
    That will be 10 or 20 years from now, Steam's convenience is today. If it really becomes an issue, some form of piracy will always be available to recover those games. 20 years ago games came on floppies and ran on DOS. If I want to play one today, the legality of my copy is really the least of the hurdles.
    - jasonkester 15y ago
      Not really. I still play Master of Orion on a regular basis, and it came out in 1991. Same with the original Civilization from 1990. The reason I can still play these games is because I have a copy of them. That's the point in question here. Do I really have a copy of Portal 2? It's on my computer now, sure. But will I be able to fire it up and reminisce in 2031?
      - steauengeglase 15y ago
        That was true for games that came out prior to mass dialup and then mass broadband. Since then I have an ever increasing stack of games (and other software) that are unplayable as companies decided that keeping the auth servers up was too expensive (or the company folded, the IPs were sold off and the auth servers brought down). Either way, that disc is pretty much a meaningless waste of space now. BTW, anyone want this awesome System Shock 2 coaster?
citricsquid 15y ago
I own over 200 games on Steam, from big name titles (Call of Duty) to small indie games and I have never had a problem with DRM.
- barrkel 15y ago
  I bought Portal 2, I got bored of it after the few hours of gameplay it has, and I wanted to let my girlfriend play it (who has just finished Portal 1). Can't do that without giving her my login. That alone means Steam games are worth perhaps only 30% of retail price to me; but they are not priced like that in the UK. They're usually 10-30% more expensive than e.g. Amazon. These are the biggest kinds of problems I have with DRM, when it's not something like Securom complaining that I'm running Process Explorer.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - barrkel 15y ago
      You of course realize, not all contract terms are binding, yet when contract terms are implemented in software, they become much more binding than when they are interpreted by a court of law. You also realize that not all license agreements are the same; and first sale doctrine normally gives right to resell copyrighted works. I would in effect be gifting the game to my girlfriend, rather than lending it, as I wouldn't be playing it again. And thanks for accusing me of breaking the law. I appreciate it. (The thing that tipped me into buying the game on Steam was that I'd also be supporting independent developers with the Potato Sack etc.)
    - cookiecaper 15y ago
      First of all, please don't conflate license agreement and statute -- a statute is law, a license agreement is a private contract that may or may not be valid. The US has until recently had strong case law support for lending and reselling goods. Look up the first sale doctrine, which states that copyright holders can only impose restrictions on the first sale of a copyrighted project, and thereafter the property can be used, sold, abused, denigrated, etc., as desired by the possessor. This is actually a really important part of copyright law, because without it a copyright holder could say "You can't give my CD to charity, I don't make money for poor people" (manifest practically as "you must not charge less than x price"), and otherwise impose ridiculous restrictions on private property, thereby diminishing the real property of the possessor in favor of the theorized intellectual property assigned to the copyright holder in order to promote useful progress in the arts. To the extent that copyright powers do not promote useful progress in the arts, they should be entirely demolished!!!

by pacemkr 15y ago

earbitscom 15y ago

Yeah, I'm not a big gamer but it seems very similar. The simple fact is, a percentage of people will break the law and steal these things, and many of those people take pride in doing it when it's more difficult to accomplish. Meanwhile, the honest people just want to buy the product and enjoy it, and we're constantly penalized, even though the efforts of these initiatives rarely make a big impact on theft.

benologist 15y ago

Between Steam and iTunes (and equiv for Android) there's not much disk inserting and stuff to be done anymore. I will say some games are utter shite though with requiring internet - like C&C4 where the game is deliberately married to it and doesn't run without it.

seabee 15y ago

This is true when you buy retail, but I find it hard to begrudge Steam. I can buy a game and have it ready to play within the hour. And when I go to the parents' house, I can install the games I bought onto their computer. It's not without its issues, but at least Steam offers added value with its DRM; more than you can say for EA or Ubisoft.

pacemkr 15y ago
I still play games I bought ten years ago. Can you definitively say that the same will be true for content you purchase using Steam? What about 20 years from now? The value of your purchase is now directly tied to the success of the company. In other words, their choice of using DRM is taking actual value away from you. Arguably, a pirate wont have these issues.
- linead 15y ago
  I never liked this argument. If you weigh up the disadvantage of the possibility of Steam going under in the future and your games being rendered unplayable with the advantages of instant updating, single social interface and ease of delivery that Steam provides I like to think that it's a good example of the consumer winning. To me it's a bit like suggesting that you should just photocopy a book rather than buying it because if you buy it the pages may wear out one day.
- alex_c 15y ago
  That will be 10 or 20 years from now, Steam's convenience is today. If it really becomes an issue, some form of piracy will always be available to recover those games. 20 years ago games came on floppies and ran on DOS. If I want to play one today, the legality of my copy is really the least of the hurdles.
  - jasonkester 15y ago
    Not really. I still play Master of Orion on a regular basis, and it came out in 1991. Same with the original Civilization from 1990. The reason I can still play these games is because I have a copy of them. That's the point in question here. Do I really have a copy of Portal 2? It's on my computer now, sure. But will I be able to fire it up and reminisce in 2031?
    - steauengeglase 15y ago
      That was true for games that came out prior to mass dialup and then mass broadband. Since then I have an ever increasing stack of games (and other software) that are unplayable as companies decided that keeping the auth servers up was too expensive (or the company folded, the IPs were sold off and the auth servers brought down). Either way, that disc is pretty much a meaningless waste of space now. BTW, anyone want this awesome System Shock 2 coaster?

citricsquid 15y ago

I own over 200 games on Steam, from big name titles (Call of Duty) to small indie games and I have never had a problem with DRM.

barrkel 15y ago
I bought Portal 2, I got bored of it after the few hours of gameplay it has, and I wanted to let my girlfriend play it (who has just finished Portal 1). Can't do that without giving her my login. That alone means Steam games are worth perhaps only 30% of retail price to me; but they are not priced like that in the UK. They're usually 10-30% more expensive than e.g. Amazon. These are the biggest kinds of problems I have with DRM, when it's not something like Securom complaining that I'm running Process Explorer.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - barrkel 15y ago
    You of course realize, not all contract terms are binding, yet when contract terms are implemented in software, they become much more binding than when they are interpreted by a court of law. You also realize that not all license agreements are the same; and first sale doctrine normally gives right to resell copyrighted works. I would in effect be gifting the game to my girlfriend, rather than lending it, as I wouldn't be playing it again. And thanks for accusing me of breaking the law. I appreciate it. (The thing that tipped me into buying the game on Steam was that I'd also be supporting independent developers with the Potato Sack etc.)
  - cookiecaper 15y ago
    First of all, please don't conflate license agreement and statute -- a statute is law, a license agreement is a private contract that may or may not be valid. The US has until recently had strong case law support for lending and reselling goods. Look up the first sale doctrine, which states that copyright holders can only impose restrictions on the first sale of a copyrighted project, and thereafter the property can be used, sold, abused, denigrated, etc., as desired by the possessor. This is actually a really important part of copyright law, because without it a copyright holder could say "You can't give my CD to charity, I don't make money for poor people" (manifest practically as "you must not charge less than x price"), and otherwise impose ridiculous restrictions on private property, thereby diminishing the real property of the possessor in favor of the theorized intellectual property assigned to the copyright holder in order to promote useful progress in the arts. To the extent that copyright powers do not promote useful progress in the arts, they should be entirely demolished!!!