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What would you consider a bad engineer? Are we talking about the utterly hopeless or those who might only have an attitude problem? If it's the former I've perh

by tjpnz 6y ago

What would you consider a bad engineer? Are we talking about the utterly hopeless or those who might only have an attitude problem? If it's the former I've perhaps encountered only one in the last ten years. If it's the latter it's almost every month.

jachee 6y ago
Considering the Dunning-Krueger effect, my Imposter Syndrome is sure that I must either be a bad engineer, and that it's just a matter of time before I mess up in a situation because I incorrectly evaluate my skill level at evaluating my skill level... etc. or that I'm a decent engineer. I've been trying to avoid that meta-evaluation spiral for years by semi-regularly checking with third parties to confirm that I'm generally the person I believe I am. So far, so good. Edit: Almost forgot: The whole point of this introspection is to point out that the self both is and isn't a decent guidepost for evaluating others.
usefulcat 6y ago
> What would you consider a bad engineer? Are we talking about the utterly hopeless or those who might only have an attitude problem? Those categories aren't necessarily disjoint. There can be many aspects, many of which are described in the paper. But in my experience, one of the more pernicious combinations is the sincere belief that one already knows nearly everything worth knowing, coupled with a complete lack of curiosity (or perhaps it was merely utter laziness). When that happens, a person stagnates. In the case I saw, a person with decades of experience was effectively performing only marginally better than someone who had just begun their career. The major difference being that a person who has just started is often well aware that they have a lot to learn. Or even if they're not, if they're curious then there's at least a good chance that they will figure that out in time.
greggman3 6y ago
I have met plenty of bad engineers so maybe it's just luck. Engineers that can't write simple code and always over engineer. Engineers that have no concept of encapsulation and use globals all over the place. Engineers that have no concept of perf. Engineers that can't ship and noodle the same piece of code for weeks that others would have finished and moved on in a 1/10th the time. Engineers that are all talk no work. That last type sticks out where the engineer would basically walk around and stop at people's desks and talk their ears off but never actually finish any code. People complained. The boss said "they have a family so I don't want to fire them". I don't know how to answer that.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  I wonder what would happen if you also started walking around and stopped finishing code. Would the boss keep you too, or would you get fired despite having a family?
TeeMassive 6y ago
> What would you consider a bad engineer? A bad engineer can have one or more of the following qualities: * Thinks he's good. * Think he's so bad that he never speaks out about issues or possible solutions. * "I've been doing this for X years therefore I'm right" * "This is X years old and therefore it's wrong" * Focuses on "delivering", while code quality degrades * Focuses only on code quality while nothings get delivered * "Why upgrade and stay up to date? If it ain't broken don't fix it!" * Makes efforts to appear cool by not being nice and courteous. * Talks loudly. * Argue in code reviews You might think I'm being judgemental, but in my experience this is because the organization who rewards those behavior.
kitsune_ 6y ago
One framing that I found useful (by Covey Jr I think): Capabilities, results, integrity, intent. A bad engineer is so deficient in one or more of those areas that it leads to issues of trust from which a snowball starts to roll downhill. The team will have performance issues or might to start losing people and so on. A well intended, stand up person who can't code will have a negative impact because their team mates will have to carry their water. A person with high technical chops who delivers great technical implementations but publicly berates people and has temper issues and throws their team mates under the bus in order to get ahead will also have a negative impact on the performance of the team as a whole.

by tjpnz 6y ago

jachee 6y ago

Considering the Dunning-Krueger effect, my Imposter Syndrome is sure that I must either be a bad engineer, and that it's just a matter of time before I mess up in a situation because I incorrectly evaluate my skill level at evaluating my skill level... etc. or that I'm a decent engineer. I've been trying to avoid that meta-evaluation spiral for years by semi-regularly checking with third parties to confirm that I'm generally the person I believe I am. So far, so good. Edit: Almost forgot: The whole point of this introspection is to point out that the self both is and isn't a decent guidepost for evaluating others.

usefulcat 6y ago

> What would you consider a bad engineer? Are we talking about the utterly hopeless or those who might only have an attitude problem? Those categories aren't necessarily disjoint. There can be many aspects, many of which are described in the paper. But in my experience, one of the more pernicious combinations is the sincere belief that one already knows nearly everything worth knowing, coupled with a complete lack of curiosity (or perhaps it was merely utter laziness). When that happens, a person stagnates. In the case I saw, a person with decades of experience was effectively performing only marginally better than someone who had just begun their career. The major difference being that a person who has just started is often well aware that they have a lot to learn. Or even if they're not, if they're curious then there's at least a good chance that they will figure that out in time.

greggman3 6y ago

I have met plenty of bad engineers so maybe it's just luck. Engineers that can't write simple code and always over engineer. Engineers that have no concept of encapsulation and use globals all over the place. Engineers that have no concept of perf. Engineers that can't ship and noodle the same piece of code for weeks that others would have finished and moved on in a 1/10th the time. Engineers that are all talk no work. That last type sticks out where the engineer would basically walk around and stop at people's desks and talk their ears off but never actually finish any code. People complained. The boss said "they have a family so I don't want to fire them". I don't know how to answer that.

Viliam1234 6y ago
I wonder what would happen if you also started walking around and stopped finishing code. Would the boss keep you too, or would you get fired despite having a family?

TeeMassive 6y ago

> What would you consider a bad engineer? A bad engineer can have one or more of the following qualities: * Thinks he's good. * Think he's so bad that he never speaks out about issues or possible solutions. * "I've been doing this for X years therefore I'm right" * "This is X years old and therefore it's wrong" * Focuses on "delivering", while code quality degrades * Focuses only on code quality while nothings get delivered * "Why upgrade and stay up to date? If it ain't broken don't fix it!" * Makes efforts to appear cool by not being nice and courteous. * Talks loudly. * Argue in code reviews You might think I'm being judgemental, but in my experience this is because the organization who rewards those behavior.

kitsune_ 6y ago

One framing that I found useful (by Covey Jr I think): Capabilities, results, integrity, intent. A bad engineer is so deficient in one or more of those areas that it leads to issues of trust from which a snowball starts to roll downhill. The team will have performance issues or might to start losing people and so on. A well intended, stand up person who can't code will have a negative impact because their team mates will have to carry their water. A person with high technical chops who delivers great technical implementations but publicly berates people and has temper issues and throws their team mates under the bus in order to get ahead will also have a negative impact on the performance of the team as a whole.