4 ms·

I haven't been following the news in Sweden in a few months, but am curious, did they keep up with the herd immunity plan or did they reverse course?

bpodgursky 6y ago
The overarching goal has never been herd immunity. Sweden has always, and is continuing to pursue, sustainable social distancing and curve flattening. They have never significantly changed that course.
- Grustaf 6y ago
  Exactly. And they have always been at war with Eurasia.
  - yxhuvud 6y ago
    Well, Russia IS the traditional enemy of Sweden.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Trivium: Rus itself seems to have been the Finnish name for Sweden, meaning "land of rowing" (as in boats), carried by Swedes to Kiev in the 9th century. Long history. https://www.etymonline.com/word/Russia https://www.etymonline.com/word/Russia
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-19-strategist-under-fire-over-herd-immunity-emails https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-... > However, email exchanges obtained by Swedish journalists under freedom of information laws show Tegnell discussing herd immunity as an objective in mid-March, days after the World Health Organization declared Covid-19 a pandemic.
  - Xevi 6y ago
    That discussion was in an email conversation with, among others, Finland, where they stated that they've had the same thoughts about herd immunity. All countries have discussed herd immunity at some point. However, herd immunity was never the goal, as you can read from the email exchanges in the original source the article links to. It was merely a discussion about a possible side effect of the actual goals, which was to prevent a collapse of the Swedish healthcare system, and to prevent side effects that lockdowns have (because they're not a silver bullet either). Now, if they were successful is another question. I'm a Swede and I do not agree with our strategy.
- pc86 6y ago
  This is just not true. Edit: To the downvoters, see sibling comments. Just because it doesn't fit whatever narrative you want to have doesn't change the facts.
  - mrkeen 6y ago
    For a country-wide strategy I think you need to do a bit better than digging discussions out of a guy's email. If herd immunity was the plan, then when was Tegnell going to let us co-conspirators in on it?
- polemic 6y ago
  This is getting down-voted but it is something of a myth that Sweden ever had herd immunity as an officially adopted policy. Yes it was discussed at high levels but it is not true to say this was the strategy adopted and implemented by the government. This is not a defense of the strategy they did follow, which appears to have failed badly. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133 > Sweden's authorities never said achieving herd immunity was their goal, but they did argue that by keeping more of society open, Swedes would be more likely to develop a resistance to Covid-19. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-didnt-seek-herd-immunity-torbjorn-sohlstrom/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-didnt-see... > Speaking to Times radio on Sunday, Torbjörn Sohlström said that Sweden’s maverick no-lockdown coronavirus response did not seek to boost the number of infections and reach a critical mass of infected to stop the virus from spreading. etc. (It might help to consider what a "herd immunity" strategy would actually look like, vs the extremely light touch they actually took.) Final edit: this was a good look at the handling from a NZ journalist talking to a Swedish researcher from Lund University who looked at the international media coverage. Worth a listen if you want to understand how the "Sweden herd immunity" meme spread https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018769007/how-has-sweden-really-tackled-the-covid-pandemic https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018769007... _and_ how that's hiding some of the negative aspects of the Swedish approach you might not have heard about.
  - brnt 6y ago
    It's a feature present in all anglosaxon jurisdiction: nothing can be discussed in terms other than their political implications. Discussing the validity of the herd immunity argument is equivalent to considering a sort of genocide, and cannot be an honest and sincere discussion of a scientific theory. Fortunately Swedish gov didn't see much merit in the argument, as there isn't. It's good to know some jurisdictions haven't lost the ability to discuss things on scientific merits just yet.
tpmx 6y ago
Quick summary: Monumental incompetency/groupthink at our small CDC-equivalency (Folkhälsomyndigheten) during the spring. Disaster was narrowly avoided by heroic work by healthcare workers/hospitals. A lot of people died though. Death per capita levels are similar to US levels, not to rest-of-Nordics levels (e.g. Norway/Denmark/Finland). This isn't acceptable. Herd immunity was the obvious plan all along although it was publicly denied. Recent "leaked" emails have revealed the truth. The same people responsible for the above are still in charge. It will be a long winter. Source: Jag är svensk. (I am Swedish.)
- landemva 6y ago
  It is useful to look at death rates by age group. Sweden initially made the same mistake as Cuomo in New York by putting known infected people in nursing homes that housed compromised older people. That caused it to spread into and kill a known vulnerable age group.
- _Microft 6y ago
  I just made up a word: would "folkhälsoomyndigheten" be a pun that Swedes would actually understand? My swedish is admittedly a bit rusty by now. Take care and all the best!
  - tpmx 6y ago
    Not really, but I see what you were going for. Thanks!
    - _Microft 6y ago
      It never hurts to try. Thanks for the feedback!
      - tpmx 6y ago
        No problem. Btw, it would be "Ohälsofolkmyndigheten", I guess, although it sounds really weird.
- 6y ago

bpodgursky 6y ago

The overarching goal has never been herd immunity. Sweden has always, and is continuing to pursue, sustainable social distancing and curve flattening. They have never significantly changed that course.

Grustaf 6y ago
Exactly. And they have always been at war with Eurasia.
- yxhuvud 6y ago
  Well, Russia IS the traditional enemy of Sweden.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Trivium: Rus itself seems to have been the Finnish name for Sweden, meaning "land of rowing" (as in boats), carried by Swedes to Kiev in the 9th century. Long history. https://www.etymonline.com/word/Russia https://www.etymonline.com/word/Russia
ceejayoz 6y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-19-strategist-under-fire-over-herd-immunity-emails https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-... > However, email exchanges obtained by Swedish journalists under freedom of information laws show Tegnell discussing herd immunity as an objective in mid-March, days after the World Health Organization declared Covid-19 a pandemic.
- Xevi 6y ago
  That discussion was in an email conversation with, among others, Finland, where they stated that they've had the same thoughts about herd immunity. All countries have discussed herd immunity at some point. However, herd immunity was never the goal, as you can read from the email exchanges in the original source the article links to. It was merely a discussion about a possible side effect of the actual goals, which was to prevent a collapse of the Swedish healthcare system, and to prevent side effects that lockdowns have (because they're not a silver bullet either). Now, if they were successful is another question. I'm a Swede and I do not agree with our strategy.
pc86 6y ago
This is just not true. Edit: To the downvoters, see sibling comments. Just because it doesn't fit whatever narrative you want to have doesn't change the facts.
- mrkeen 6y ago
  For a country-wide strategy I think you need to do a bit better than digging discussions out of a guy's email. If herd immunity was the plan, then when was Tegnell going to let us co-conspirators in on it?
polemic 6y ago
This is getting down-voted but it is something of a myth that Sweden ever had herd immunity as an officially adopted policy. Yes it was discussed at high levels but it is not true to say this was the strategy adopted and implemented by the government. This is not a defense of the strategy they did follow, which appears to have failed badly. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133 > Sweden's authorities never said achieving herd immunity was their goal, but they did argue that by keeping more of society open, Swedes would be more likely to develop a resistance to Covid-19. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-didnt-seek-herd-immunity-torbjorn-sohlstrom/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-didnt-see... > Speaking to Times radio on Sunday, Torbjörn Sohlström said that Sweden’s maverick no-lockdown coronavirus response did not seek to boost the number of infections and reach a critical mass of infected to stop the virus from spreading. etc. (It might help to consider what a "herd immunity" strategy would actually look like, vs the extremely light touch they actually took.) Final edit: this was a good look at the handling from a NZ journalist talking to a Swedish researcher from Lund University who looked at the international media coverage. Worth a listen if you want to understand how the "Sweden herd immunity" meme spread https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018769007/how-has-sweden-really-tackled-the-covid-pandemic https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018769007... _and_ how that's hiding some of the negative aspects of the Swedish approach you might not have heard about.
- brnt 6y ago
  It's a feature present in all anglosaxon jurisdiction: nothing can be discussed in terms other than their political implications. Discussing the validity of the herd immunity argument is equivalent to considering a sort of genocide, and cannot be an honest and sincere discussion of a scientific theory. Fortunately Swedish gov didn't see much merit in the argument, as there isn't. It's good to know some jurisdictions haven't lost the ability to discuss things on scientific merits just yet.

tpmx 6y ago

Quick summary: Monumental incompetency/groupthink at our small CDC-equivalency (Folkhälsomyndigheten) during the spring. Disaster was narrowly avoided by heroic work by healthcare workers/hospitals. A lot of people died though. Death per capita levels are similar to US levels, not to rest-of-Nordics levels (e.g. Norway/Denmark/Finland). This isn't acceptable. Herd immunity was the obvious plan all along although it was publicly denied. Recent "leaked" emails have revealed the truth. The same people responsible for the above are still in charge. It will be a long winter. Source: Jag är svensk. (I am Swedish.)

landemva 6y ago
It is useful to look at death rates by age group. Sweden initially made the same mistake as Cuomo in New York by putting known infected people in nursing homes that housed compromised older people. That caused it to spread into and kill a known vulnerable age group.
_Microft 6y ago
I just made up a word: would "folkhälsoomyndigheten" be a pun that Swedes would actually understand? My swedish is admittedly a bit rusty by now. Take care and all the best!
- tpmx 6y ago
  Not really, but I see what you were going for. Thanks!
  - _Microft 6y ago
    It never hurts to try. Thanks for the feedback!
    - tpmx 6y ago
      No problem. Btw, it would be "Ohälsofolkmyndigheten", I guess, although it sounds really weird.
6y ago