19 ms·

Attachmate lays off Mono employees

71 points by thesethings 15y ago

phren0logy 15y ago
Is it premonition or self-fulfilling prophecy that most open-source developers felt a little queasy about Mono?
- eropple 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure your question is inapplicable. Attachmate's layoff almost certainly has nothing to do with the open-source viability of Mono and more to do with the difficulty of monetizing it. MonoVS, MonoTouch, and MonoDroid are fantastic projects, but the commercial demand for each is relatively low. There's probably not as much money there as was once thought. (disclaimer: I'm a former Mono contributor and occasional user. I have no knowledge of this situation - this is the first I heard of it.)
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  I'd say "premonition", but that word summons "supernatural" connotations to me. Really it's just common sense, with even a mediocre knowledge of history.
- jsprinkles 15y ago
  FUD, actually. I did not see giving up and using past tense terms to describe OpenOffice when Oracle bought Sun and things did not go the way the community wanted. The community simply routed around. What makes Mono different? How does this news mean anything for Mono at all aside from people not getting paid to work on it? Does the anti-Mono crowd just lay in wait for a negative story to further disseminate FUD? I've used Mono a few times and I just do not understand the treatment of Miguel and the project. The only answer I have ever deduced is that Mono is rooted in a Microsoft technology and the anti-Mono crowd apparently hates Microsoft.
  - phren0logy 15y ago
    Well, perhaps I jumped the gun on declaring it dead, but my question stands. As far as I can tell, C# provides a lot of nice features. Despite that fact, it seems to be as MS-only as Objective-C is Apple-only. No technical reason for either, but it seems strong in the open-source culture.
    - darklajid 15y ago
      I don't get that. You say that C# provides a lot of nice features. Mono offers a C# compiler. ObjC is for Apple only, because - they more or less control the field and push it hard there - other implementations lack the ecosystem - other implementations are far behind Mono gained quite a lot of traction (F-Spot, Banshee, Tomboy) on Linux, so far that it even allowed to 'backport' former Linux-only apps to Windows and OS X. You get the nice features C# provides, even if you are not on Windows. And you can rely on the same framework. : Except when you don't: WPF is the biggest example, other areas might lag behind as well. But you _can_ write software for multiple systems _or_ focus on Mono (Gtk#, Mono.Posix/Mono.Unix) only to rapidly write software on Linux.
      - phren0logy 15y ago
        I don't think I expressed myself very well. I'm saying that despite the nice features of C# that Mono brings to the table, it doesn't appear to have seen wide adoption. That's all. I didn't realize Tomboy was written in C#; that's great. I understand what Mono is, and that's why I'm confused that there don't seem to more (or at least, more visible) projects using it.
        jimmyjazz14 15y ago
        You might check out http://www.mono-project.com/Software http://www.mono-project.com/Software and http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono
      - thedeuce 15y ago
- jimmyjazz14 15y ago
  I am an open source developer and I love the Mono project. I really don't know what you are basing you assumption on that most open-source developers dislike Mono, I know plenty that think its great as I do. A lot of pretty cool stuff is happening in the .Net world these days and Mono makes them available to us Linux and OS X developers. The only arguments I have heard against the project has been based on FUD.
munchhausen 15y ago
Sensationalism at its best is at work here. Attachmate/Novell laid off a lot of employees in the US today, and "internetnews.com" goes on to extrapolate that "Today Attachmate laid off an unknown number of U.S. based Novell developers that were working on the open source Mono project". Indeed, the number is unknown - it may as well be zero.
- darklajid 15y ago
  IRC confirms that the number is at least 1 (and after knowing that I extrapolate that there is some truth in that headline).
johns 15y ago
"unknown number of U.S. based Novell developers that were working on the open source Mono project." does not mean the entire team was laid off. Second, no source is cited and this is unconfirmed as of yet. I think people should calm down with the speculation until something official happens.
- jsprinkles 15y ago
  Why would anybody do that when a chance to disparage Mono is presented?
  - blub 15y ago
    Puzzling indeed, we should look for the positive aspects in this situation. For instance when Nokia chose WP7 and C# over MeeGo and Qt, which lead to layoffs, resignations and other unpleasant consequences, Miguel DeIcaza looked for the positive aspects and declared that Nokia is simplifying the mobile landscape. [1] Similarly, we could now say that Attachmate is simplifying the cross-platform toolkit landscape... [1] http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-14.html http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-14.html
yuhong 15y ago
Personally I really hope that the MS-Novell deal will not be renewed.
- eropple 15y ago
  Why should it not be renewed? I ask because, frankly, I am skeptical that you have the technical or legal backing to have an informed enough opinion to legitimately hold such a hope--and there's a surprising amount of FUD (no small amount perpetuated by Groklaw) about it.
evo_9 15y ago
I really wish I'd never bought MonoTouch, I think a refund should be available to us that bought it less than a year ago.
- jimmyjazz14 15y ago
  I think you might be jumping the gun here a little, nobody said any major changes will be happening to the Mono project, this article has not even been confirmed yet.
  - evo_9 15y ago
    It's not just this. The lack of a clear plan/solution for going forward regarding the new Xcode/IB single IDE; the solution to keep using the previous version just isn't ideal. I've seen a few times in the past 6 months where major changes dropped and users were asking for really basic info/response on forums and got nothing. I'm just going to stick it out with obj-c.
    - escoz 15y ago
      they have already announced that they're working on xcode 4 integration, and just today one of the developers for MonoDevelop released a video showing that integration working.
      - evo_9 15y ago
        Good to know, but poking around the monotouch website I don't see anything about this. I'd think this would be on the frontpage or the news section at the very least. Nothing about it in community either. Little things like this (not being able to find valuable info) really does kill motivation to work on this otherwise fun/interesting platform.
        icey 15y ago
        If you're still looking for the video: http://twitter.com/#!/migueldeicaza/status/65513868599902208 http://twitter.com/#!/migueldeicaza/status/65513868599902208
zbowling 15y ago
Mono contributor (circa 2005-2006) here. They didn't axe the entire team. Still going strong. Mono had a number of people working on different sides and only part of the team was let go as part of Attachmate restructuring of the SuSE group.
Stormbringer 15y ago
From an article back in 09 when Miguel joined Microsoft's Open Source Foundation: "That’s just what I was saying Linux needed the other day: more Silverlight applications. In fact, I was discussing how promoting Silverlight development in no way whatsoever helps Microsoft lock-in, and quite the contrary actually encourages the spread of software freedom under every definition known to mankind. Because it is Microsoft that is internationally recognized for leverging its considerable power to promote user freedom and interoperability through its file formats and development technologies we absolutely need more of that being produced in the Linux world, which tends to use proprietary and obscured formats and languages"
known 15y ago
http://mono-project.com/Compatibility http://mono-project.com/Compatibility shows Mono is as good as MS .Net

71 points by thesethings 15y ago

phren0logy 15y ago

Is it premonition or self-fulfilling prophecy that most open-source developers felt a little queasy about Mono?

eropple 15y ago
I'm pretty sure your question is inapplicable. Attachmate's layoff almost certainly has nothing to do with the open-source viability of Mono and more to do with the difficulty of monetizing it. MonoVS, MonoTouch, and MonoDroid are fantastic projects, but the commercial demand for each is relatively low. There's probably not as much money there as was once thought. (disclaimer: I'm a former Mono contributor and occasional user. I have no knowledge of this situation - this is the first I heard of it.)
burgerbrain 15y ago
I'd say "premonition", but that word summons "supernatural" connotations to me. Really it's just common sense, with even a mediocre knowledge of history.
jsprinkles 15y ago
FUD, actually. I did not see giving up and using past tense terms to describe OpenOffice when Oracle bought Sun and things did not go the way the community wanted. The community simply routed around. What makes Mono different? How does this news mean anything for Mono at all aside from people not getting paid to work on it? Does the anti-Mono crowd just lay in wait for a negative story to further disseminate FUD? I've used Mono a few times and I just do not understand the treatment of Miguel and the project. The only answer I have ever deduced is that Mono is rooted in a Microsoft technology and the anti-Mono crowd apparently hates Microsoft.
- phren0logy 15y ago
  Well, perhaps I jumped the gun on declaring it dead, but my question stands. As far as I can tell, C# provides a lot of nice features. Despite that fact, it seems to be as MS-only as Objective-C is Apple-only. No technical reason for either, but it seems strong in the open-source culture.
  - darklajid 15y ago
    I don't get that. You say that C# provides a lot of nice features. Mono offers a C# compiler. ObjC is for Apple only, because - they more or less control the field and push it hard there - other implementations lack the ecosystem - other implementations are far behind Mono gained quite a lot of traction (F-Spot, Banshee, Tomboy) on Linux, so far that it even allowed to 'backport' former Linux-only apps to Windows and OS X. You get the nice features C# provides, even if you are not on Windows. And you can rely on the same framework. : Except when you don't: WPF is the biggest example, other areas might lag behind as well. But you _can_ write software for multiple systems _or_ focus on Mono (Gtk#, Mono.Posix/Mono.Unix) only to rapidly write software on Linux.
    - phren0logy 15y ago
      I don't think I expressed myself very well. I'm saying that despite the nice features of C# that Mono brings to the table, it doesn't appear to have seen wide adoption. That's all. I didn't realize Tomboy was written in C#; that's great. I understand what Mono is, and that's why I'm confused that there don't seem to more (or at least, more visible) projects using it.
      - jimmyjazz14 15y ago
        You might check out http://www.mono-project.com/Software http://www.mono-project.com/Software and http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono
    - thedeuce 15y ago
jimmyjazz14 15y ago
I am an open source developer and I love the Mono project. I really don't know what you are basing you assumption on that most open-source developers dislike Mono, I know plenty that think its great as I do. A lot of pretty cool stuff is happening in the .Net world these days and Mono makes them available to us Linux and OS X developers. The only arguments I have heard against the project has been based on FUD.

munchhausen 15y ago

Sensationalism at its best is at work here. Attachmate/Novell laid off a lot of employees in the US today, and "internetnews.com" goes on to extrapolate that "Today Attachmate laid off an unknown number of U.S. based Novell developers that were working on the open source Mono project". Indeed, the number is unknown - it may as well be zero.

darklajid 15y ago
IRC confirms that the number is at least 1 (and after knowing that I extrapolate that there is some truth in that headline).

johns 15y ago

"unknown number of U.S. based Novell developers that were working on the open source Mono project." does not mean the entire team was laid off. Second, no source is cited and this is unconfirmed as of yet. I think people should calm down with the speculation until something official happens.

jsprinkles 15y ago
Why would anybody do that when a chance to disparage Mono is presented?
- blub 15y ago
  Puzzling indeed, we should look for the positive aspects in this situation. For instance when Nokia chose WP7 and C# over MeeGo and Qt, which lead to layoffs, resignations and other unpleasant consequences, Miguel DeIcaza looked for the positive aspects and declared that Nokia is simplifying the mobile landscape. [1] Similarly, we could now say that Attachmate is simplifying the cross-platform toolkit landscape... [1] http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-14.html http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-14.html

yuhong 15y ago

Personally I really hope that the MS-Novell deal will not be renewed.

eropple 15y ago
Why should it not be renewed? I ask because, frankly, I am skeptical that you have the technical or legal backing to have an informed enough opinion to legitimately hold such a hope--and there's a surprising amount of FUD (no small amount perpetuated by Groklaw) about it.

evo_9 15y ago

I really wish I'd never bought MonoTouch, I think a refund should be available to us that bought it less than a year ago.

jimmyjazz14 15y ago
I think you might be jumping the gun here a little, nobody said any major changes will be happening to the Mono project, this article has not even been confirmed yet.
- evo_9 15y ago
  It's not just this. The lack of a clear plan/solution for going forward regarding the new Xcode/IB single IDE; the solution to keep using the previous version just isn't ideal. I've seen a few times in the past 6 months where major changes dropped and users were asking for really basic info/response on forums and got nothing. I'm just going to stick it out with obj-c.
  - escoz 15y ago
    they have already announced that they're working on xcode 4 integration, and just today one of the developers for MonoDevelop released a video showing that integration working.
    - evo_9 15y ago
      Good to know, but poking around the monotouch website I don't see anything about this. I'd think this would be on the frontpage or the news section at the very least. Nothing about it in community either. Little things like this (not being able to find valuable info) really does kill motivation to work on this otherwise fun/interesting platform.
      - icey 15y ago
        If you're still looking for the video: http://twitter.com/#!/migueldeicaza/status/65513868599902208 http://twitter.com/#!/migueldeicaza/status/65513868599902208

zbowling 15y ago

Mono contributor (circa 2005-2006) here. They didn't axe the entire team. Still going strong. Mono had a number of people working on different sides and only part of the team was let go as part of Attachmate restructuring of the SuSE group.

Stormbringer 15y ago

From an article back in 09 when Miguel joined Microsoft's Open Source Foundation: "That’s just what I was saying Linux needed the other day: more Silverlight applications. In fact, I was discussing how promoting Silverlight development in no way whatsoever helps Microsoft lock-in, and quite the contrary actually encourages the spread of software freedom under every definition known to mankind. Because it is Microsoft that is internationally recognized for leverging its considerable power to promote user freedom and interoperability through its file formats and development technologies we absolutely need more of that being produced in the Linux world, which tends to use proprietary and obscured formats and languages"

known 15y ago

http://mono-project.com/Compatibility http://mono-project.com/Compatibility shows Mono is as good as MS .Net