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> To further protect privacy, we have stopped logging IP addresses associated with Developer ID certificate checks Apple has a really strong brand. If this was

> To further protect privacy, we have stopped logging IP addresses associated with Developer ID certificate checks Apple has a really strong brand. If this was from Google or Facebook, there’d be angry mob about how dear they logged IP in the first place.

gentleman11 6y ago
Google or Facebook would not post this because they would be combining the data. Instead it would be some meaningless claim that they don’t use the data for advertising or don’t sell the data, leaving themselves free to do anything else with it (plus, the “we can change the terms at any time” clauses)
- refulgentis 6y ago
  I would argue it's because Google has to value security and privacy in a way Apple doesn't - Google has to build platforms instead of gardens, so there's an 'adversarial' incentive to make sure you're not held liable due to a 3rd parties actions. Also, these incidents would be a thermonuclear event for search due to the intimacy and inherent 'Internet-ness' of the data - versus Apple, who can get away with incidents like introducing Intelligent Tracking Prevention - two years later, it turned out it was a globally unique identifier that also leaked your web history [1] Yet, because Apple didn't have a perceived incentive to leak this information, people see it as a 'mere' competency issue and move on. [1] https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/curious-case-of-privacy-vulnerability-in-intelligent-tracking-prevention/ https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/curious-case-of-privacy-vulne...
  - stingraycharles 6y ago
    Nah it’s because Google and Facebook earn their money with advertising, which implies data. Apple, on the other hand, earns their money by selling hardware. It’s a different value exchange, and Apple doesn’t really have a lot to gain by becoming a “bad actor” with data. See also, for example, their planned advertising tracking protections coming up in 2021. They don’t have a lot to lose in this area, and a lot to gain.
    - refulgentis 6y ago
      I think that analysis is adequate for describing why Apple shouldn't be a bad actor with data, but, they meet the criteria for one - the security incidents the past couple years (supercookie, history leak, root, leaking app launches in plaintext...), assisting government access, softening E2E encryption to de facto unencrypted...
coldtea 6y ago
>If this was from Google or Facebook, there’d be angry mob about how dear they logged IP in the first place. Google and Facebook already do that. And of course with them there's no way to stop it either for most of their properties, as they're 100% web based. Plus, in the excerpt you're quoting the say they stopped logging IP address for dev tests -- logging those (and more) are par for the course in all kinds of debug environments (from MS, Oracle, etc.), that Apple doesn't anymore is probably impressive.
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  At least in Googles case you can disable it. Checking on their site shows an empty list on my account
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    It is a Web based application, what they show and what they actually do aren't necessarily the same thing.
ffpip 6y ago
Google and Facebook already collect every time you open an app. it's under 'web and app activity'. They use it to target ads.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Google allows you to turn it off.
simion314 6y ago
This IP logging might not be legal under GDPR, Apple did not need the IP for this purpose of revoking a certificate and it was proven that almost all user had no idea that this even happens each time they launch an app. But the cherry on the cake is that all of this was not encrypted so even if a users would have accepted this stuff with the TOS dark pattern they did not accepted that this data would be visible but third parties. A few years/months ago this would have been considered a conspiracy, today is just fine for most because "think about my mother" , I agree with the secure by default but don't forget that when Apple decides or is "forced" to remove an application you have no workaround on iOS around that and this "feature" will come to the laptop and desktop if users don't demand it and keep bringing the mom argument.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
There has been an angry mob. This week I learned (from HN) that because I prefer macOS I must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, enabling technology dictatorships and generally bringing about the end of the world.

gentleman11 6y ago

Google or Facebook would not post this because they would be combining the data. Instead it would be some meaningless claim that they don’t use the data for advertising or don’t sell the data, leaving themselves free to do anything else with it (plus, the “we can change the terms at any time” clauses)

refulgentis 6y ago
I would argue it's because Google has to value security and privacy in a way Apple doesn't - Google has to build platforms instead of gardens, so there's an 'adversarial' incentive to make sure you're not held liable due to a 3rd parties actions. Also, these incidents would be a thermonuclear event for search due to the intimacy and inherent 'Internet-ness' of the data - versus Apple, who can get away with incidents like introducing Intelligent Tracking Prevention - two years later, it turned out it was a globally unique identifier that also leaked your web history [1] Yet, because Apple didn't have a perceived incentive to leak this information, people see it as a 'mere' competency issue and move on. [1] https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/curious-case-of-privacy-vulnerability-in-intelligent-tracking-prevention/ https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/curious-case-of-privacy-vulne...
- stingraycharles 6y ago
  Nah it’s because Google and Facebook earn their money with advertising, which implies data. Apple, on the other hand, earns their money by selling hardware. It’s a different value exchange, and Apple doesn’t really have a lot to gain by becoming a “bad actor” with data. See also, for example, their planned advertising tracking protections coming up in 2021. They don’t have a lot to lose in this area, and a lot to gain.
  - refulgentis 6y ago
    I think that analysis is adequate for describing why Apple shouldn't be a bad actor with data, but, they meet the criteria for one - the security incidents the past couple years (supercookie, history leak, root, leaking app launches in plaintext...), assisting government access, softening E2E encryption to de facto unencrypted...

coldtea 6y ago

>If this was from Google or Facebook, there’d be angry mob about how dear they logged IP in the first place. Google and Facebook already do that. And of course with them there's no way to stop it either for most of their properties, as they're 100% web based. Plus, in the excerpt you're quoting the say they stopped logging IP address for dev tests -- logging those (and more) are par for the course in all kinds of debug environments (from MS, Oracle, etc.), that Apple doesn't anymore is probably impressive.

411111111111111 6y ago
At least in Googles case you can disable it. Checking on their site shows an empty list on my account
- pjmlp 6y ago
  It is a Web based application, what they show and what they actually do aren't necessarily the same thing.

ffpip 6y ago

Google and Facebook already collect every time you open an app. it's under 'web and app activity'. They use it to target ads.

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Google allows you to turn it off.

simion314 6y ago

This IP logging might not be legal under GDPR, Apple did not need the IP for this purpose of revoking a certificate and it was proven that almost all user had no idea that this even happens each time they launch an app. But the cherry on the cake is that all of this was not encrypted so even if a users would have accepted this stuff with the TOS dark pattern they did not accepted that this data would be visible but third parties. A few years/months ago this would have been considered a conspiracy, today is just fine for most because "think about my mother" , I agree with the secure by default but don't forget that when Apple decides or is "forced" to remove an application you have no workaround on iOS around that and this "feature" will come to the laptop and desktop if users don't demand it and keep bringing the mom argument.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

There has been an angry mob. This week I learned (from HN) that because I prefer macOS I must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, enabling technology dictatorships and generally bringing about the end of the world.