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Look, we're all trying to do something for the future, we're on the same boat. But you can't just simply waltz to mankind and actively make their lives measurab

Look, we're all trying to do something for the future, we're on the same boat. But you can't just simply waltz to mankind and actively make their lives measurably more miserable 'because future and polar bears', suck it up. People will react very negatively and you will lose the cause, maybe for good. In next elections some populist will win and revert any progress (I believe I don't need to put names here, do I). It literally doesn't matter that everybody on Hacker News would agree with this, HN is definitely not a representative sample on many topics. If you think mankind is smarter, look at politics of lately, look at covid-related deniers, folks rejecting masks due to some wacky conspiracy, 5g/chipping and so on and on. Forcing folks like this while we give places like China, India or other polluters a free pass? Not only are people expected to pay the bill (research, transition), but it literally won't matter on global scale that they do.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> But you can't just simply waltz to mankind and actively make their lives measurably more miserable 'because future and polar bears', suck it up. It's not for the polar bears, it's for us. Massive droughts and rampant storms are going to be far worse than needing to charge electric cars. What is your alternate plan? I would love to have a less disruptive path forward.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  UK going away from fossil fuel-powered cars will not affect climate change in any mesurable way. The way to go forward is to get everyone (or at least a majority of countries) to agree on a reduction program. Otherwise, UK's population will suffer for nothing.
  - craigr1972 6y ago
    Yes it will, because the UK is hosting the United Nations Climate Change Conference in 2021 at which a lot of vital decisions will be made or ratified.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    Funny, one thing one hears in these discussions in Germany is: reducing the amount of CO2 emitted in Germany isn't affecting climate change in a measurable way. Now replicate this in most other countries... One has to start and other nations are going to quickly join in.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    By the same logic, we shouldn't spend money on the police to investigate murders in $TOWN because even if we did, it wouldn't down the global crime rate all that much.
    - concordDance 6y ago
      That's really not analogous at all... Where is the negative externality in your example?
_ph_ 6y ago
Switching to electric cars will make the life better for most of us. Even ignoring the fight against climate change, they don't emit bad smelling and most importantly toxic exhaust, create much less noise. In most cases, they drive way better than ICE cars.
raxxorrax 6y ago
I think you are correct and the responses are missing the point. But I don't think a petrol ban is forcing people to do anything. If it really would negatively individual transport, there would be a huge backlash. But I think the scenarios are realistic enough so it doesn't come to that.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

> But you can't just simply waltz to mankind and actively make their lives measurably more miserable 'because future and polar bears', suck it up. It's not for the polar bears, it's for us. Massive droughts and rampant storms are going to be far worse than needing to charge electric cars. What is your alternate plan? I would love to have a less disruptive path forward.

burntoutfire 6y ago
UK going away from fossil fuel-powered cars will not affect climate change in any mesurable way. The way to go forward is to get everyone (or at least a majority of countries) to agree on a reduction program. Otherwise, UK's population will suffer for nothing.
- craigr1972 6y ago
  Yes it will, because the UK is hosting the United Nations Climate Change Conference in 2021 at which a lot of vital decisions will be made or ratified.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Funny, one thing one hears in these discussions in Germany is: reducing the amount of CO2 emitted in Germany isn't affecting climate change in a measurable way. Now replicate this in most other countries... One has to start and other nations are going to quickly join in.
- majewsky 6y ago
  By the same logic, we shouldn't spend money on the police to investigate murders in $TOWN because even if we did, it wouldn't down the global crime rate all that much.
  - concordDance 6y ago
    That's really not analogous at all... Where is the negative externality in your example?

_ph_ 6y ago

Switching to electric cars will make the life better for most of us. Even ignoring the fight against climate change, they don't emit bad smelling and most importantly toxic exhaust, create much less noise. In most cases, they drive way better than ICE cars.

raxxorrax 6y ago

I think you are correct and the responses are missing the point. But I don't think a petrol ban is forcing people to do anything. If it really would negatively individual transport, there would be a huge backlash. But I think the scenarios are realistic enough so it doesn't come to that.