27 ms·
Stolen irreplaceable books found under floor of Romanian house
- Apocryphon 6y agoThe difficulty in fencing such extremely rare items must be immense. The Transylvania University Audobon heist springs to mind: https://www.vulture.com/2018/06/the-real-life-heist-caper-behind-american-animals.html https://www.vulture.com/2018/06/the-real-life-heist-caper-be...
- grawlinson 6y ago> The difficulty in fencing such extremely rare items must be immense. It's probably similar to other underworld industries, steal-to-order is definitely more common than what people expect.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoI dunno if this was one of those, given that the books were apparently stashed under a floor for all this time. Makes me think it was a speculative theft but they couldn't find buyers.
- toyg 6y agoThey might have been waiting for waters to calm down. 3 years is not that much time to wait, for objects of this rarity. In fact, they might have planned to keep them for longer but for covid19 forcing their hand (the black economy must be currently struggling in the same way as the regular one, of course).
- oblio 6y agoHe he, the irony. Transylvania is a Romanian region :-)
- oblio 6y agoI don't get why this is downvoted, it's a funny coincidence :-)
- vmception 6y agoWho snitched? This is such an improbable bust.
- vikramkr 6y agoWhat's the point of stealing these? Vanity? You can't exactly melt them down and sell them for scrap - their resale value is basically zero - when the value comes from being unique, doesn't that make it hard to make money off of the item?
- iJohnDoe 6y agoSeems kind of contradictory. FTA — "These books are extremely valuable, but more importantly they are irreplaceable and are of great importance to international cultural heritage," said Det Insp Andy Durham, from the Metropolitan police's Specialist Crime South command. The works were being stored in a warehouse ahead of being transported to a specialist book auction in Las Vegas, in the US, when they were stolen
- jonny_eh 6y agoya, but it's not like the thieves are able to do an auction of their own.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoWhy not?
- tartoran 6y agoBooks are recorded as stolen, anyone who’d buy them would be liable to have them seized by authorities at some point when they try to resel them. As someone mentions above, if they were gold the value would still be there by melting them
- thaumasiotes 6y ago> As someone mentions above, if they were gold the value would still be there by melting them Only if they were just a bunch of gold bars when you stole them. If you stole, say, the Swedish crown jewels ( https://www.thelocal.se/20190211/police-confirm-swedens-stolen-crown-jewels-found-strangnas-royal https://www.thelocal.se/20190211/police-confirm-swedens-stol... ), you could pop off all the jewels and melt down the gold for its weight value, but that would be losing almost 100% of the value. The thieves can't auction off their books by listing them at Christie's. But that's not the same claim as "the thieves can't auction off their books".
- thisistheend123 6y ago>> the Romanian gang flies members into the UK to commit specific offences, then flies them out shortly afterwards, with different members taking the stolen property out of the country by alternative transport methods. Wow that is really out of the script of so many heist/caper movies I have seen.
- locusm 6y agoIts more common than you think, this was a couple of years ago where I live. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-28/shoplifting-luxury-goods-syndicate-shut-down-by-police/10671224 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-28/shoplifting-luxury-go...
- IronRanger 6y agoIts also a motivator behind Brexit - regain some control over who comes in and out.
- 4gotunameagain 6y agoThe draconian face scanning devices on the airports of London already do the job mate
- gambiting 6y agoWhich is the stupidest motivator under the sun for brexit. UK is not part of the schoengen zone and can deny entry to anyone they want to, even EU citizens if it has enough reason to. The only entry points into the country are either by plane, ferry or train, so UK has 100% control and inspection of every person and vehicle coming in and out. But of course the most damning argument against this nonsense is that countries which have this "absolute control" over their immigration have exactly the same levels of criminals coming over. It's almost as if criminals aren't going to care about regulations, I know, shocking.
- kawsper 6y agoThey already had that control, https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/ https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/
- lethologica 6y agoIf they’re irreplaceable, then how come they have a value? Shouldn’t being irreplaceable make them priceless?
- X6S1x6Okd1st 6y agoYou can not replace any original copies, however just because something is an original copy doesn't mean it is priceless. For instance few would pay much money for the original copy of one of my notebooks, but it is irreplaceable if lost.
- hobofan 6y agoHow come paintings that are all unique (and with that irreplacable) have a price? (The answer is demand)
- _ZeD_ 6y agoI thought the answer was money laundry
- Broken_Hippo 6y agoSupply and demand doesn't really flesh out in the art world. Lots of people get to wanted status simply because they knew the right folks or were lucky. It isn't so much originality or that there wasn't a supply of art. There is a supply of art. Good, well done art that will meet your needs and slews of folks that will do commissions if you do. If anything, there is more art than there is demand, even if you are into non-mainstream stuff. If it were different, art school would be an excellent choice for your financial future. As another reply said, there is a lot of money laundering in the art world as well. I imagine there are some questionable tax dodges in it too.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> Supply and demand doesn't really flesh out in the art world. Yes, they do. It may be the case that demand in the art world defies the expectations of rational choice theory that demand will be a function of utility realized by the buyer if they are successful in the transaction, but prices are still driven by supply and demand. > Lots of people get to wanted status simply because they knew the right folks or were lucky. How demand is generated and whether or not it is rationally-grounded has no bearing on whether supply and demand “flesh out”. > It isn't so much originality or that there wasn't a supply of art. It's that art works that you consider adequate substitutes for each other are not considered adequate substitutes by a sufficient subset of buyers such that the availability of tons of generic art at cheap prices does not drive down the market-clearing price of less-available in-demand art.
- elmo2you 6y agoNobody else considered these two sentences, pretty much one right after the other, quite at odd with each other? > These books are extremely valuable, but more importantly they are irreplaceable and are of great importance to international cultural heritage > The works were being stored in a warehouse ahead of being transported to a specialist book auction in Las Vegas, in the US So, they were of great cultural/historical importance, yet they were about to get shipped of to the USA to be auctioned. In Las Vegas, of all places. If that was to be an open auction, where essentially anyone could bid, I fail so see how the end result is all that different from these thieves selling them on a black market. Sure, with an open auction there is at least a track record, of where these works end ended up. But access to these works would just as well be on the whims of private owners. To me it sounds like works of such cultural/historical value ending up in private hands either way, is the real crime here. Maybe fully legal(ized) in one case, but I think that says rather a lot about the system as a whole.
- emteycz 6y agoBuildings are often protected as cultural heritage, even though they are private, the owner can't change them at whim, and preserving the looks is usually not enough. Isn't the situation similar with books or art?
- elmo2you 6y agoYou bring up an interesting point (and perspective) on this. I have to admit, I honestly don't know if/how things might be regulated (if at all) for works of literary art (with historical/cultural significance). AFAIK, with buildings these regulations (now) exists because they didn't in the past. People got really upset with other people just demolishing what they held dear, public outcry as a result and eventually regulations too. But in this situation the destruction is often driven by space being a scarce commodity (especially in cities). I doubt that books often get destroyed to make way for new ones (barring a few criminal/extremist authoritarian regimes), so it might never have reached a point where enough people got upset about it and demand regulation. But now I am curious though, if there are indeed regulations for these kind of works. If there are, that would essentially render my original opinion null and void. Still, I would prefer it that way, rather than know that these works will end up in the hands of the financially powerful private hands. For I have little faith in that lot and their antics.
- ddmma 6y agoLibrary was closed in the pandemic times, wanted to study at home in original
- codetrotter 6y agoHave these books been scanned? I get that the physical original books have a value in their own right, but if they haven’t already been digitized we should do so. A digital version of the book that anyone can access would at least ensure that the content is preserved even if the physical original is lost.
- getlawgdon 6y agoPerhaps the entire event is a ruse. Perhaps the "arrests" and "recovery" are all part of a strategy to have such profitable works go to such a seemingly bizarre/unfitting outcome: an auction. Maybe the thieves will get off on some technicality.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoI wonder if they asked the journalist to leave out the part about them being 1 in 45 for kicking in the right door or if it even occurred to them that that might reflect poorly.
- johnnycerberus 6y agoThe name of the clan is Clamparu. It is more of an international clan, strong conections with the outside of EU. They have Russian, Israeli and American connections. They use Romanian sites because the villages are hidden deep inside the forests of the Carpathian mountains. I'm surprised that they could find them. A huge success of British, Italian and Romanian authorities. The question here is who sponsored the hit? I want to say that the Clamparu clan is not your average "hit and run" heist makers, they specialize in extremely well thought out heists. Very, very expensive. They are also known for being extremely clean, I can't recall somebody ever getting injured or killed in one of their hits. As described by The Guardian, they used 13m ropes to climb down and they successfully dodged the alarm sensors. Gives me some Uncharted vibes, lol.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]