4 ms·

Can we agree that there is a difference between an on screen nipple or saying fuck on TV and the POTUS actively undermining democracy? The general talk of free

Can we agree that there is a difference between an on screen nipple or saying fuck on TV and the POTUS actively undermining democracy? The general talk of free speech and censoring is not really useful here without specifics. Just like someone can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater, there are other things we are finding that may be similar in nature. I think a more useful discussion could be around the specifics. Should the POTUS be able to communicate anything they want? Should platforms be forced to carry it?

0x445442 6y ago
So you think Trump is the first POTUS to make objectively false statements and have those amplified over mass media?
- giantg2 6y ago
  Which one hasn't, might be a better question.
- matwood 6y ago
  First? No. Most prolific? I think so. He's also one of the first to make heavy use of direct social media, which is different than mass media of old. Notice also I didn't say Trump, but POTUS in general. What do we want to do here going forward? Should the POTUS be treated differently than a private citizen? What this current period reminds me of historically is McCarthyism, except we have the POTUS lobbing baseless claims instead of a senator. I don't think McCarthyism impacted the general public as much as claims undermining the election does though.
  - 0x445442 6y ago
    The problem is not all the claims you might consider baseless actually are and neither you nor I have any way of really knowing.
    - Scharkenberg 6y ago
      Gaslighting now?
- macintux 6y ago
  I think he’s the first to do so on the scale of thousands of such statements.
coldtea 6y ago
>the POTUS actively undermining democracy? I think the "POTUS actively undermining democracy" is a gaslighting / pearl clutching for what is a crass person but otherwise business as usual in the White House... Apparently Patriot Act, mass surveillance, Guantanamo, the "WMD", Echelon, trillion dollar bailouts, false congress testimonies, etc weren't "undermining democracy", but an old guy tweeting some braggadocio/BS is. And those that designed, established, and voted those things (e.g. Clinton, Bush, and Obama) are all love for each other, and all stand "united" against the "big threat" that is this guy... Talk about a circus...
- pjc50 6y ago
  We're downvoting you, but there is a valid point: many of those things are also bad. The false narrative that started the Iraq war had bi-partisan support and was popular with the public. Treating everything as if there were only two sides is part of the problem. But I see dissent within the democrat party over these issues - and not within the republican party, who have supported everything that Trump has said and done.

0x445442 6y ago

So you think Trump is the first POTUS to make objectively false statements and have those amplified over mass media?

giantg2 6y ago
Which one hasn't, might be a better question.
matwood 6y ago
First? No. Most prolific? I think so. He's also one of the first to make heavy use of direct social media, which is different than mass media of old. Notice also I didn't say Trump, but POTUS in general. What do we want to do here going forward? Should the POTUS be treated differently than a private citizen? What this current period reminds me of historically is McCarthyism, except we have the POTUS lobbing baseless claims instead of a senator. I don't think McCarthyism impacted the general public as much as claims undermining the election does though.
- 0x445442 6y ago
  The problem is not all the claims you might consider baseless actually are and neither you nor I have any way of really knowing.
  - Scharkenberg 6y ago
    Gaslighting now?
macintux 6y ago
I think he’s the first to do so on the scale of thousands of such statements.

coldtea 6y ago

>the POTUS actively undermining democracy? I think the "POTUS actively undermining democracy" is a gaslighting / pearl clutching for what is a crass person but otherwise business as usual in the White House... Apparently Patriot Act, mass surveillance, Guantanamo, the "WMD", Echelon, trillion dollar bailouts, false congress testimonies, etc weren't "undermining democracy", but an old guy tweeting some braggadocio/BS is. And those that designed, established, and voted those things (e.g. Clinton, Bush, and Obama) are all love for each other, and all stand "united" against the "big threat" that is this guy... Talk about a circus...

pjc50 6y ago
We're downvoting you, but there is a valid point: many of those things are also bad. The false narrative that started the Iraq war had bi-partisan support and was popular with the public. Treating everything as if there were only two sides is part of the problem. But I see dissent within the democrat party over these issues - and not within the republican party, who have supported everything that Trump has said and done.