20 ms·
Apologies if this is covered in the article, which I can't get to, but what is he doing to make amends? Or is this just empty, placatory words?
by SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
Apologies if this is covered in the article, which I can't get to, but what is he doing to make amends? Or is this just empty, placatory words?
- flavor8 6y agoHe's 85, his brother died recently, and he's very likely concerned about "legacy". According to Greenpeace, these assholes have poured $145,555,197 into groups that worked counter to climate policy changes being enacted (from 1997 to 2018). _Partisanship_ should be the least of his worries - he'll be remembered as a key figure who spurred inaction at the exact time that we should have been taking drastic action.
- the-dude 6y agoIs everybody you disagree with an <totally not appropiate here or elsewhere> ?
- shrimp_emoji 6y agoFor me, when the disagreement is about turning the planet into a hollow cinder for naked protection of wealth accrued in an unjust system and justified by Puritanical memes of free will and individualism, it's either a naughty word ascribing malice or one ascribing stupidity. (Consequentially, the difference is sadly zero.)
- the-dude 6y agoGreat stuff, you can't make this up.
- kbenson 6y ago> turning the planet into a hollow cinder There is disagreement about the magnitude of things, but this is hyperboloic. > for naked protection of wealth An opinion on their motives. > accrued in an unjust system There's so much that can be discussed there. But simple, name one system that isn't unjust in some way. You can optimize for advancement though capitalism, or you can optimize for equality though communism, or some variation thereof. If you optimize too much for capitalism, the lower class are left out, if you optimize too much for communism, after a while everyone is lower than the lower class in what capitalism would result in. Different people will view the right balance differently, so "just" has no meaning here. > it's either a naughty word ascribing malice or one ascribing stupidity Or a bit of humility in assuming that you don't know every single thing there is to know about economics, sociology, political theory, and the motives of other individuals. To be clear, I probably have similar views and beliefs to you on all these topics, but where we differ is in my willingness to put my views forth as fact and condemn others on limited evidence, public relations pieces put out by them and others, and my views on soft sciences that are still very much being worked on and in flux. Thinking someone else is an asshole is not an excuse for adopting bad behavior youself.
- Miraste 6y ago>> turning the planet into a hollow cinder >There is disagreement about the magnitude of things, but this is hyperboloic (sic) It's not hyperbolic. The Earth's new homeostasis after an unchecked greenhouse effect has run its course looks like Venus. If the effect is not stopped the question is not whether this will happen but how long it will take. Quite a while, certainly, but the environment will become inimical to humans much sooner.
- the-dude 6y agoAnd Greenpeace, with a 'campaign' director who used to fly up & down from Luxemburg to Amsterdam for his commute? [0] Dutch, no international sources available AFAIK : [0] https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/artikel/1806716/greenpeace-vliegende-directeur-voortaan-met-de-trein https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/artikel/1806716/greenpeace-v...
- flavor8 6y agoDo you dispute the figure?
- the-dude 6y agoI object to your polarizing language.
- flavor8 6y agoGenuinely curious - are you seriously a fan of the Kochs? What do you find admirable about them?
- the-dude 6y agoI have no opinion on the Kochs, I have too little information, and since I don't have any influence, I couldn't care less. I do care about civil discourse though.
- voltaireodactyl 6y ago“A rose by any other name”.
- flavor8 6y agoWell then, take it from me. They're assholes.
- brazzy 6y agoThere is a level of assholery that puts you far, far beyond considerations of "civil discourse".
- medium_burrito 6y agoGreenpeace is directly working against nuclear energy, which is the best way to have clean energy in the future for a large portion of humanity.
- colinmhayes 6y agoI don't think that changes how much the Koch's donated to climate change deniers.
- the-dude 6y agoWould you please consider using heretics instead of the energy wasting climate change deniers? This would emit about 60% less CO2, mind you.
- forest_dweller 6y agoIt highlights the very important point that activist groups will quite often ignore viable solutions. This is usually because they wish to keep on being activists and keep on continuing the fight. Thus it brings into question anything they claim and all claims should be treated with skepticism.
- aniro 6y agoHave you seen how big the Chernobyl exclusion zone is? are to move your family there? Have you paid any attention to the after effects at Fukushima? Do you care to realize that we are pushing radiation with unknown effects into the largest body of water (and one of the greatest repositories of life) on Earth? That the effects will likely reverberate for a 1000 years or more? What is your solution to the problem of accumulating Nuclear waste? Has it occurred to you that life has succeeded on the planet primarily by a fantastical luck of getting dosed with EXACTLY the right amount of radiation, carefully controlled by an atmosphere that literal took a millennia of millennia in order to develop? That fucking with that balance by inviting disastrous and unknown consequences into that careful envelope might turn some people off? No. You must be right.. just a bunch of loony activists that are clinging desperately to the activist identity. How shallow and unconsidered an opinion. Did it make you feel as smug as it sounded when you typed it out?
- gorbachev 6y agoThe Koch Brothers are also directly responsible for poisoning a generation of poor people who've had the unfortunate luck to live downwind from chemical factories owned by Koch Industries. What's even more audacious is that all the money they gained from killing people, a lot of them from cancer, they pretend to be patrons of curing cancer funding cancer research. The family puts most robber barons to shame.
- gnramires 6y agoIt's very sad to see people so attached to their egos and external image. Instead of genuinely caring for what will the lives of others be like in the future, they only care about how they will read his name when he is not there. How petty is that, how meaningless? What meaning carries the pronunciation of a name in isolation? Humanity will only progress once we deeply realize the reality of other minds, that we are made of the same stuff, that our conscious and identity is only pragmatically separated. You and me are the same stuff; helping myself and helping you are effectively the same thing. Helping my children (or your children) is the same as helping myself. I just can't see through their eyes, but they are all like a part of me, equally alive and thinking, that I just cannot access. Once (and if) we realize this, then we can hope to go on longer than a few decades.
- toyg 6y ago> What meaning carries the pronunciation of a name in isolation? ...And on the pedestal, these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Shelley published Ozymandias more than 200 years ago. Humans are what they are.
- d4rti 6y agoJudging by the title of his new book, I’d suggest he is going for the Cameron-esque Big Society argument for reducing taxes this time. U.K. food bank use is at record highs [1]. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/03/record-numbers-used-uk-food-banks-in-first-month-of-lockdown https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/03/record-numbe...
- missedthecue 6y agoIsn't that proof it's working?
- TaylorAlexander 6y agoCynically I just think he wants to play ball with the Biden administration now that they’re talking a big talk about working with republicans.
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y agoThat would be my cynical take as well: Oligarch sees which way the political wind is currently blowing.
- TaylorAlexander 6y agoMmhmm.
- to11mtm 6y agoI'd think there are a few things going on; - Parts of both the right and the left would rather not repeat the experience they have had over the last few years. While part of me thinks that the Koch businesses did pretty well during the Trump administration, the relative chaos of his presidency likely didn't let them do a lot of -effective- lobbying. - Speaking of businesses. Koch Industries historically has had Petroleum and Paper as their Cash Cows. With all of the attention on global warming, as well as their track record on lobbying, Yes I would absolutely agree they are trying to play nice. - That said, I did find it interesting to note that Koch Industries has fully acquired Infor as of this year. For those unfamiliar, it's a player in the ERP scene and based on the people that I've worked with from there and their stories, probably a pretty good product in that space. So -maybe- they are in fact seeing the writing on the wall and trying to move to more sustainable markets. we shall see.
- freshhawk 6y agoIt's real politics though, it's not cynical to not be a complete rube.
- wombatmobile 6y ago> Mr. Koch is now trying to work together with Democrats and liberals on issues such as immigration, criminal-justice reform and limiting U.S. intervention abroad, where he thinks common ground can be found. He has partnered with organizations including the LeBron James Family Foundation, the American Civil Liberties Union and even a handful of Democratic state legislative campaigns. In 2019, he renamed the Koch network of about 700 donors as Stand Together. > Still, his political spending remains almost entirely partisan. Koch Industries’ PAC and employees donated $2.8 million in the 2020 campaign cycle to Republican candidates and $221,000 to Democratic candidates, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
- rootusrootus 6y ago> Mr. Koch is now trying to work together with Democrats A pragmatic choice given that a Democrat just won the White House. He can sit it out, or try to work with them and possibly influence their position.
- qPM9l3XJrF 6y agoHe's been working with the Democrats for a while actually.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- wombatmobile 6y agoWouldn't it be quicker for him to just buy them?
- zimpenfish 6y agoLike others have mentioned, it's an empty rebranding. His super-PAC is still dumping money into the Georgia Senate race to help Perdue and Loeffler's re-election. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/charles-koch-what-a-mess https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/charles-koch-what-a-...