6 ms·

What is a wireless lighting system? What is the advantage of such a system over a switch next to the door? E: A wireless lighting systems seems to be a light b

by lqet 6y ago

What is a wireless lighting system? What is the advantage of such a system over a switch next to the door? E: A wireless lighting systems seems to be a light bulb with WiFi capabilities.

_0o6v 6y ago
It's an interesting academic exercise / hobby. Beyond that, nothing.
gbrown_ 6y ago
It's solutionism.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  Never seen that. I like it. Providing a solution before the problem exists is exactly what this is.
Semaphor 6y ago
For example, not having to get up and go to the door. I find that extremely convenient when lying in bed, about to sleep. I usually read for a few hours with dark red light, when I’m ready to sleep I can just turn the lights off.
- OJFord 6y ago
  I've had both a switch for the main light (s) and a lamp bedside the bed all my life, multiple houses, none of them 'smart' or wireless. Don't get me wrong - I want to use HomeAssistant or similar - but I don't want to ditch physical switches.
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    I have physical switches, I just don’t use them. They are my fallback for when the network fails, the hue hub dies or whatever.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      What I mean is I think I prefer them even if I were technically set up to use my phone or a remote - they'd never be in the right place so I'd have to get up anyway. (And in this case the (dumb) switches on the wall have always been in the right place, by the bed, in my bedrooms. (In addition to one by the door of course.)) I'd just have 'the system' 'aware' of the switches and current state etc. so that I could have certain automations, logging, etc. The physical switches would either be network inputs themselves (easier implementation but reliability concern) or just report events but be electrically connected to the light still; I suppose also light-side state reporting for ultimate reliability (against missed switch events that did change light state because of electrical connection).
- tokamak-teapot 6y ago
  There is a technical solution for this which might need some research and I’m not sure it’s been proved out yet but if you search for ‘bedside lamp’ you might find a starting point.
  - FeepingCreature 6y ago
    Right, but then you have to go to the bed, turn the bedside lamp on, go to the door, turn the room lamp off, go to bed. Bit of a round trip. I wound up with a LED strip attached to a RPi under my bed, driven by a clapper script. Doesn't work completely reliably, but well enough.
- lqet 6y ago
  Why would you leave the room light on for reading in bed?
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    Because I don’t want to read in full darkness. I sometimes read for several hours before I sleep, the lack of light would make me fall asleep far too early (I already wake up at 4 in the morning when I sleep normally).
- segfaultbuserr 6y ago
  You don't really need a "smart" light for it, a traditional radio-controlled "dumb" light switch is good enough for this purpose. Just press a button, and the remote control sends a RF signal at 433 MHz to switch it on or off, there's no IoT complexity like firmware updates, Linux kernel, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, an Internet connection or other nonsense. It can either be a light switch installed on the wall, or an integrated unit that comes with the LED light fixture (which may also allow you to change the color). Also, neutral wire is not a problem, some wall switches don't need it [0]. "Smart" lightbulbs are more flexible with more features, but personally I'm not a fan of them - many features with few additional benefits (with high price tags, possible bugs, and privacy concerns). Nevertheless, if you are not allowed to change any electrical wiring in the room, using "smart" lightbulbs can be a justified choice. Another genuine use may be controlling many wired-together lightbulbs on a large light fixture as separate groups without a laborious rewiring. Meanwhile I'll keep using my dumb wireless light switch. [0] They solve the neutral problem by using an always-on high resistance in series with the "hot" wire. The lightbulbs on the light fixture completes the circuit, a tiny current starts to flow, which is harvested by the switch to power itself. Clever hack!
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    The question was for wireless lights. A radio-controlled dumb-switch used this way is still wireless lightning. And what privacy concerns are there with lights that have no internet connection whatsoever?
    - segfaultbuserr 6y ago
      First, some context. When I was replying to this thread, there were only three comments, the first said wireless lighting was an useless solution waiting for a problem, another said it was a hobby and not too useful, and only you said it was useful. Hence, it thought it was natural to add some comment under your comment. Furthermore, the original article described how the author designed a Wi-Fi based system, and other readers seemed to have "smart" or "Wi-Fi" lights or lightbulbs in mind when they were expressing their disapproval to wireless lightning, so I thought it was useful to make the point that a remote-controlled light is not necessarily a IoT "smart" light, which constitutes the first paragraph of my reply. And the second paragraph in my reply was my personal opinion to those "Wi-Fi" / "IoT" based lightbulbs - they do have legitimate uses, however they may contain "possible bugs, and privacy concerns" (as in: a Wi-Fi controlled lightbulb with a mobile app), thus "meanwhile I'll keep using my dumb wireless light switch". I hope my comment makes sense to you now. > A radio-controlled dumb-switch used this way is still wireless lightning. Yes, and it was also the point I was trying to make.
- VLM 6y ago
  I have an interesting setup with home assistant similar to your needs Power the bed reading light lamp with a zen15 zooz inline switch which is never shut off but can monitor current and power continuously. So now homeassistant knows when my bed reading light is on or off based on if the lamp is drawing more than 3 watts or less. Which means it can control my ceiling fan appropriately AND dimmable room light bulbs AND mess with the thermostat depending on outside temperature / mode. And maybe other options someday in the future. Some effort to set up the hardware, maybe 30 lines of YAML automation code, but it is nice and convenient. I have a "reading desk lamp" in my basement lab that does similar tricks. Desk lamp no current drawn means my soldering iron and some other apparatus has its power removed. Improves safety a little. If my youngest kid were not an older teen, I've been thinking about wifi/bluetooth presence detection such that my table saw has no electrical power if my phone isn't within X feet of the saw. A kind of similar automation but different opportunity.
brtkdotse 6y ago
I’m actually contemplating exchanging all our halogen spotlights (as they’re no longer being sold) to IKEA Trådfri. My rationale for it is that I want to be able to dim them, but exchanging halogens for LEDs would mean the transformer wouldn’t see enough of a load to dim properly. By exchanging everything for IKEA bulbs I save on changing the transformer since the dimming circuit is in each bulb.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Beware, the Tradfri spots are not as bright as regular bulbs by far. Try out one first before committing on a couple hundred dollars. And if you're hunting for relays and other actuators... the compatibility between IKEA Tradfri products is excellent, but your mileage will vary when going with other Zigbee products.
- piceas 6y ago
  I like and have bought into the IKEA system, but I have had a lot of trouble with their gu10 lights. Some sets of three occasionally go into party mode and start flashing in a sequence. They reset themselves every month or so. I'm tall and my ceilings are not so it's quick for me to pair them again. It would be super annoying if they were too high to reach. Setting the white spectrum fails using the 5 button controller. Often one or two usually fail to set correctly resulting in a weird mix. I simply don't bother anymore. They work nicely with the app, when still paired. I haven't had any problems with the e27's in the same rooms. 'Dumb' rf motion detector triggered under-counter lighting in the kitchen has been way better bang for buck. It just works. No smart home required.
mattlondon 6y ago
I have found it useful when you have your hands full (e.g. hands full of shopping, or carrying a baby with a dirty nappy/diaper to a changing table are just two examples where you can just shout to google/alexa to turn it on), or turning stuff on/off when you are away from home (e.g. automatically at sunset, turning heating on when you are on your way home etc), or you left the lights on and you are already in bed etc. First world problems, but it is handy.
- lqet 6y ago
  I am sure that this is a cool feature, but I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around all the technological overhead required here to avoid having to flip a switch with your elbow or hip if your hands are full. "First world problems" seems like an understatement here.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    The lights are just gravy for me. They're super cheap, and it is handy to be able to turn a bunch on or off with one command. Or have them turn on when you get home, etc. What really keeps me going with home automation is the door & lock control. Being able to monitor the status of the garage doors and the deadbolts on all doors is worth the price of admission. The kids each have their own code to get in the house, I can lock the doors from afar if they get left open or unlocked, I can check the status at any time, etc. I have the system close & lock everything at bedtime if it isn't already, and it communicates status to me as things are opened/closed/locked/unlocked. I could give up the lighting if I had to. I could just use the built-in scheduling on the thermostat. No biggy. But the locks and doors functionality is worth the effort.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > you left the lights on and you are already in bed 1970's technology to the rescue: https://www.amazon.com/Clapper-Sound-Activated-Switch-Each/dp/B00P5P5G5E https://www.amazon.com/Clapper-Sound-Activated-Switch-Each/d... As for when my hands are full, elbows work just fine. If/when I become bedridden or crippled, I'll probably get Alexa. Until then, I get up and walk to the switch. It's a privilege to be able to do that, and I'll do it as long as I can.
rwmj 6y ago
It avoids having to run wires through the walls (the switch can be battery powered or even piezo-powered so it works just from the force of your press). Having said that most houses already have the wires in the walls, and even if the wires are old/unsuitable you can pull through new ones, so for most people it doesn't really make much sense.
Xylakant 6y ago
There are some reasons to go for a wireless system, for example when you can’t just go and run new wires to have switches in places you’d want to. Either because it’s an old house or a rented unit or something like that. But when planning a refurbishment or new construction, pulling (ethernet) wires is the safe bet.
- lqet 6y ago
  So what powers the switches then?
  - Xylakant 6y ago
    Batteries for example, or you may have power from other circuits that you can tap. A light circuit with multiple switches requires comparatively complex wiring - either all switches need to connect to a central point (breaker box) or you need to have some sort of loop that passes by all switches. It’s nontrivial to retrofit. Some sort of (wireless) bus system that transmits the signal digitally can help reducing that complexity.
  - narism 6y ago
    There are switches that use the kinetic energy of the button push to work. No batteries, no wires. https://www.enocean.com/en/products/enocean_modules_24ghz/ https://www.enocean.com/en/products/enocean_modules_24ghz/
tails4e 6y ago
I have a system called KNX, its not wireless but each switch is independent of each actuated function (light, blinds, etc). The main advantage is the wiring is simple, a bus for all switches and all lights go back to a relay board. Switches, sequencing / grouping can be assigned at any time after install, scheduled on/off, easy to extend later, etc. For example I built a garage 10 years after my house and by running a single cat 5 between the buildings, I can now press a button (any button I wish) in the house and turn all garage lights off. I can also see the state of any light or actuator at any time, etc. So there are some nice advantages, but I'm glad it is wired for sure..
dwighttk 6y ago
The author mentioned that his house is made of stone, so running wires to the lights is less easy than in a hollow walled house.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  It's not hard, you just run the wires in conduit. Yeah, you can see the conduit, but make it part of the decor. You'll see this in a lot of retrofits.
  - dwighttk 6y ago
    But it is not as easy.

by lqet 6y ago

What is a wireless lighting system? What is the advantage of such a system over a switch next to the door? E: A wireless lighting systems seems to be a light bulb with WiFi capabilities.

_0o6v 6y ago

It's an interesting academic exercise / hobby. Beyond that, nothing.

gbrown_ 6y ago

It's solutionism.

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
Never seen that. I like it. Providing a solution before the problem exists is exactly what this is.

Semaphor 6y ago

For example, not having to get up and go to the door. I find that extremely convenient when lying in bed, about to sleep. I usually read for a few hours with dark red light, when I’m ready to sleep I can just turn the lights off.

OJFord 6y ago
I've had both a switch for the main light (s) and a lamp bedside the bed all my life, multiple houses, none of them 'smart' or wireless. Don't get me wrong - I want to use HomeAssistant or similar - but I don't want to ditch physical switches.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  I have physical switches, I just don’t use them. They are my fallback for when the network fails, the hue hub dies or whatever.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    What I mean is I think I prefer them even if I were technically set up to use my phone or a remote - they'd never be in the right place so I'd have to get up anyway. (And in this case the (dumb) switches on the wall have always been in the right place, by the bed, in my bedrooms. (In addition to one by the door of course.)) I'd just have 'the system' 'aware' of the switches and current state etc. so that I could have certain automations, logging, etc. The physical switches would either be network inputs themselves (easier implementation but reliability concern) or just report events but be electrically connected to the light still; I suppose also light-side state reporting for ultimate reliability (against missed switch events that did change light state because of electrical connection).
tokamak-teapot 6y ago
There is a technical solution for this which might need some research and I’m not sure it’s been proved out yet but if you search for ‘bedside lamp’ you might find a starting point.
- FeepingCreature 6y ago
  Right, but then you have to go to the bed, turn the bedside lamp on, go to the door, turn the room lamp off, go to bed. Bit of a round trip. I wound up with a LED strip attached to a RPi under my bed, driven by a clapper script. Doesn't work completely reliably, but well enough.
lqet 6y ago
Why would you leave the room light on for reading in bed?
- Semaphor 6y ago
  Because I don’t want to read in full darkness. I sometimes read for several hours before I sleep, the lack of light would make me fall asleep far too early (I already wake up at 4 in the morning when I sleep normally).
segfaultbuserr 6y ago
You don't really need a "smart" light for it, a traditional radio-controlled "dumb" light switch is good enough for this purpose. Just press a button, and the remote control sends a RF signal at 433 MHz to switch it on or off, there's no IoT complexity like firmware updates, Linux kernel, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, an Internet connection or other nonsense. It can either be a light switch installed on the wall, or an integrated unit that comes with the LED light fixture (which may also allow you to change the color). Also, neutral wire is not a problem, some wall switches don't need it [0]. "Smart" lightbulbs are more flexible with more features, but personally I'm not a fan of them - many features with few additional benefits (with high price tags, possible bugs, and privacy concerns). Nevertheless, if you are not allowed to change any electrical wiring in the room, using "smart" lightbulbs can be a justified choice. Another genuine use may be controlling many wired-together lightbulbs on a large light fixture as separate groups without a laborious rewiring. Meanwhile I'll keep using my dumb wireless light switch. [0] They solve the neutral problem by using an always-on high resistance in series with the "hot" wire. The lightbulbs on the light fixture completes the circuit, a tiny current starts to flow, which is harvested by the switch to power itself. Clever hack!
- Semaphor 6y ago
  The question was for wireless lights. A radio-controlled dumb-switch used this way is still wireless lightning. And what privacy concerns are there with lights that have no internet connection whatsoever?
  - segfaultbuserr 6y ago
    First, some context. When I was replying to this thread, there were only three comments, the first said wireless lighting was an useless solution waiting for a problem, another said it was a hobby and not too useful, and only you said it was useful. Hence, it thought it was natural to add some comment under your comment. Furthermore, the original article described how the author designed a Wi-Fi based system, and other readers seemed to have "smart" or "Wi-Fi" lights or lightbulbs in mind when they were expressing their disapproval to wireless lightning, so I thought it was useful to make the point that a remote-controlled light is not necessarily a IoT "smart" light, which constitutes the first paragraph of my reply. And the second paragraph in my reply was my personal opinion to those "Wi-Fi" / "IoT" based lightbulbs - they do have legitimate uses, however they may contain "possible bugs, and privacy concerns" (as in: a Wi-Fi controlled lightbulb with a mobile app), thus "meanwhile I'll keep using my dumb wireless light switch". I hope my comment makes sense to you now. > A radio-controlled dumb-switch used this way is still wireless lightning. Yes, and it was also the point I was trying to make.
VLM 6y ago
I have an interesting setup with home assistant similar to your needs Power the bed reading light lamp with a zen15 zooz inline switch which is never shut off but can monitor current and power continuously. So now homeassistant knows when my bed reading light is on or off based on if the lamp is drawing more than 3 watts or less. Which means it can control my ceiling fan appropriately AND dimmable room light bulbs AND mess with the thermostat depending on outside temperature / mode. And maybe other options someday in the future. Some effort to set up the hardware, maybe 30 lines of YAML automation code, but it is nice and convenient. I have a "reading desk lamp" in my basement lab that does similar tricks. Desk lamp no current drawn means my soldering iron and some other apparatus has its power removed. Improves safety a little. If my youngest kid were not an older teen, I've been thinking about wifi/bluetooth presence detection such that my table saw has no electrical power if my phone isn't within X feet of the saw. A kind of similar automation but different opportunity.

brtkdotse 6y ago

I’m actually contemplating exchanging all our halogen spotlights (as they’re no longer being sold) to IKEA Trådfri. My rationale for it is that I want to be able to dim them, but exchanging halogens for LEDs would mean the transformer wouldn’t see enough of a load to dim properly. By exchanging everything for IKEA bulbs I save on changing the transformer since the dimming circuit is in each bulb.

mschuster91 6y ago
Beware, the Tradfri spots are not as bright as regular bulbs by far. Try out one first before committing on a couple hundred dollars. And if you're hunting for relays and other actuators... the compatibility between IKEA Tradfri products is excellent, but your mileage will vary when going with other Zigbee products.
piceas 6y ago
I like and have bought into the IKEA system, but I have had a lot of trouble with their gu10 lights. Some sets of three occasionally go into party mode and start flashing in a sequence. They reset themselves every month or so. I'm tall and my ceilings are not so it's quick for me to pair them again. It would be super annoying if they were too high to reach. Setting the white spectrum fails using the 5 button controller. Often one or two usually fail to set correctly resulting in a weird mix. I simply don't bother anymore. They work nicely with the app, when still paired. I haven't had any problems with the e27's in the same rooms. 'Dumb' rf motion detector triggered under-counter lighting in the kitchen has been way better bang for buck. It just works. No smart home required.

mattlondon 6y ago

I have found it useful when you have your hands full (e.g. hands full of shopping, or carrying a baby with a dirty nappy/diaper to a changing table are just two examples where you can just shout to google/alexa to turn it on), or turning stuff on/off when you are away from home (e.g. automatically at sunset, turning heating on when you are on your way home etc), or you left the lights on and you are already in bed etc. First world problems, but it is handy.

lqet 6y ago
I am sure that this is a cool feature, but I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around all the technological overhead required here to avoid having to flip a switch with your elbow or hip if your hands are full. "First world problems" seems like an understatement here.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  The lights are just gravy for me. They're super cheap, and it is handy to be able to turn a bunch on or off with one command. Or have them turn on when you get home, etc. What really keeps me going with home automation is the door & lock control. Being able to monitor the status of the garage doors and the deadbolts on all doors is worth the price of admission. The kids each have their own code to get in the house, I can lock the doors from afar if they get left open or unlocked, I can check the status at any time, etc. I have the system close & lock everything at bedtime if it isn't already, and it communicates status to me as things are opened/closed/locked/unlocked. I could give up the lighting if I had to. I could just use the built-in scheduling on the thermostat. No biggy. But the locks and doors functionality is worth the effort.
WalterBright 6y ago
> you left the lights on and you are already in bed 1970's technology to the rescue: https://www.amazon.com/Clapper-Sound-Activated-Switch-Each/dp/B00P5P5G5E https://www.amazon.com/Clapper-Sound-Activated-Switch-Each/d... As for when my hands are full, elbows work just fine. If/when I become bedridden or crippled, I'll probably get Alexa. Until then, I get up and walk to the switch. It's a privilege to be able to do that, and I'll do it as long as I can.

rwmj 6y ago

It avoids having to run wires through the walls (the switch can be battery powered or even piezo-powered so it works just from the force of your press). Having said that most houses already have the wires in the walls, and even if the wires are old/unsuitable you can pull through new ones, so for most people it doesn't really make much sense.

Xylakant 6y ago

There are some reasons to go for a wireless system, for example when you can’t just go and run new wires to have switches in places you’d want to. Either because it’s an old house or a rented unit or something like that. But when planning a refurbishment or new construction, pulling (ethernet) wires is the safe bet.

lqet 6y ago
So what powers the switches then?
- Xylakant 6y ago
  Batteries for example, or you may have power from other circuits that you can tap. A light circuit with multiple switches requires comparatively complex wiring - either all switches need to connect to a central point (breaker box) or you need to have some sort of loop that passes by all switches. It’s nontrivial to retrofit. Some sort of (wireless) bus system that transmits the signal digitally can help reducing that complexity.
- narism 6y ago
  There are switches that use the kinetic energy of the button push to work. No batteries, no wires. https://www.enocean.com/en/products/enocean_modules_24ghz/ https://www.enocean.com/en/products/enocean_modules_24ghz/

tails4e 6y ago

I have a system called KNX, its not wireless but each switch is independent of each actuated function (light, blinds, etc). The main advantage is the wiring is simple, a bus for all switches and all lights go back to a relay board. Switches, sequencing / grouping can be assigned at any time after install, scheduled on/off, easy to extend later, etc. For example I built a garage 10 years after my house and by running a single cat 5 between the buildings, I can now press a button (any button I wish) in the house and turn all garage lights off. I can also see the state of any light or actuator at any time, etc. So there are some nice advantages, but I'm glad it is wired for sure..

dwighttk 6y ago

The author mentioned that his house is made of stone, so running wires to the lights is less easy than in a hollow walled house.

WalterBright 6y ago
It's not hard, you just run the wires in conduit. Yeah, you can see the conduit, but make it part of the decor. You'll see this in a lot of retrofits.
- dwighttk 6y ago
  But it is not as easy.