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"colluded with foreign governments" Russia Collusion itself is an attack on the legitimacy of Trumps presidency - just like election fraud is an attack on the

"colluded with foreign governments" Russia Collusion itself is an attack on the legitimacy of Trumps presidency - just like election fraud is an attack on the legitimacy of a Biden presidency.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
This is actually true (god I hate agreeing with Trump/the GOP). Collusion was not proven, and the left-wing media went completely overboard on this. Did Russia want Hillary Clinton to lose? Yes. Did the Trump campaign meet with Russian operatives? Yes. Did they collude with Russians? No, not in a legal sense. Was the determining factor in the election Russian interference? No, it was almost certainly the NYT covering the James Comey investigation into Hillary's emails in the last week. Mind you, if I were a Russian disinformation specialist, I would be very proud of how the American people took up my insanities (on both sides) and ran with them.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > Was the determining factor in the election Russian interference? No, it was almost certainly the NYT covering the James Comey investigation into Hillary's emails in the last week. Keep in mind the entire Hillary's emails thing may have stemmed from Russian foreign intelligence work.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    Again, lots of speculation around this, no reasonable evidence in favour. Like, I'm not American (and I would have voted for Sanders twice if I was), but the core issue here is that people are focusing on conspiracy-like theories to explain their loss in elections, rather than trying to understand where the other side is coming from.
    - entropea 6y ago
      >but the core issue here is that people are focusing on conspiracy-like theories to explain their loss in elections Yeah liberals did with Russiagate in 2016, then Trump supporters will probably run with something into 2020. It's a convenient distraction from material policies.
joshuamorton 6y ago
The muller report found collusion between the trump campaign and the Russian government. It also found obstruction of justice by both the Trump campaign and Trump Whitehouse. What is up for discussion is if it found criminal collusion on the part of Trump, which it might have but stopped short of explicitly stating for political, not criminal, reasons (Muller did not feel he was able to indict a sitting president).

"colluded with foreign governments" Russia Collusion itself is an attack on the legitimacy of Trumps presidency - just like election fraud is an attack on the legitimacy of a Biden presidency.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

This is actually true (god I hate agreeing with Trump/the GOP). Collusion was not proven, and the left-wing media went completely overboard on this. Did Russia want Hillary Clinton to lose? Yes. Did the Trump campaign meet with Russian operatives? Yes. Did they collude with Russians? No, not in a legal sense. Was the determining factor in the election Russian interference? No, it was almost certainly the NYT covering the James Comey investigation into Hillary's emails in the last week. Mind you, if I were a Russian disinformation specialist, I would be very proud of how the American people took up my insanities (on both sides) and ran with them.

joshuamorton 6y ago
> Was the determining factor in the election Russian interference? No, it was almost certainly the NYT covering the James Comey investigation into Hillary's emails in the last week. Keep in mind the entire Hillary's emails thing may have stemmed from Russian foreign intelligence work.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Again, lots of speculation around this, no reasonable evidence in favour. Like, I'm not American (and I would have voted for Sanders twice if I was), but the core issue here is that people are focusing on conspiracy-like theories to explain their loss in elections, rather than trying to understand where the other side is coming from.
  - entropea 6y ago
    >but the core issue here is that people are focusing on conspiracy-like theories to explain their loss in elections Yeah liberals did with Russiagate in 2016, then Trump supporters will probably run with something into 2020. It's a convenient distraction from material policies.

joshuamorton 6y ago

The muller report found collusion between the trump campaign and the Russian government. It also found obstruction of justice by both the Trump campaign and Trump Whitehouse. What is up for discussion is if it found criminal collusion on the part of Trump, which it might have but stopped short of explicitly stating for political, not criminal, reasons (Muller did not feel he was able to indict a sitting president).