4 ms·

$20k/month is really a paltry amount of revenue for a business. If your expenses are like $5k a month and your getting maybe $180k a year in profit before taxe

by xwdv 6y ago

$20k/month is really a paltry amount of revenue for a business. If your expenses are like $5k a month and your getting maybe $180k a year in profit before taxes this is really more like a job than a business. A business making revenue of $20k a month must be a very small idea, for example a service that pings some servers and alerts customers of downtime or maybe some kind of file storage. Conceivably that means you can quickly pump out a lot of similar sized ideas and perhaps get multiple revenue streams going, each averaging $20k a month or so. Now you can afford to hire talent.

HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
I think you might be amazed at how many businesses are quite successful at levels well below that. Perhaps for a technology business it's a small amount, but it can sustain one family quite comfortably in most parts of the US. That quibble aside, I agree that if you can multiply that kind of success 3 or 5x and automate the living hell out of everything, you could be doing pretty well.
- xwdv 6y ago
  Since it's a tech forum I always assume we're talking tech money.
amelius 6y ago
> A business making revenue of $20k a month must be a very small idea, for example a service that pings some servers and alerts customers of downtime or maybe some kind of file storage. I don't think this paints a correct picture. For example, there are many developers out there who'd love to work on FOSS 24/7 while having some income from a simple side-project like you mention. But many of these developers still struggle, which says that it just isn't that simple.
- xwdv 6y ago
  You cannot be working on FOSS 24/7 and also be working on a side project to make money. If it were that easy, many people would do the simple side project and then skip the FOSS part altogether and go do something fun. FOSS is what you can do when you're no longer tied up in the mundane day to day tasks of running a business; when you have employees who keep the business processes you put in place running while you simply make high level decisions and provide capital. And of course these small kind of businesses rarely last forever. Instead of thinking long term, think of this small business as a temporary opportunity to extra value from a market while it is still there. Eventually the opportunity is exhausted the way a mineral field gets harvested and you must find a new opportunity to mine. There's not much time to do both things well. My advice to developers who want to build FOSS for a living is to make money from the software itself by providing implementation and consulting services around it. This way your interests align well with the things that pay your bills, and you can excel at both simultaneously.
PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
It seems from reading this a few times that you think that a business requires paying other people to work for you. You contrast that with a "job". For many people, the ideal situation is one where they are self-employed, not responsible for payroll, and making $20k/month (or whatever). They are not going to become part of the 1% doing that, but they will be able to lead a very comfortable, self-directed life.
- brtkdotse 6y ago
  Still, unless you try to dodge taxes, I’d say only half - if that - makes it into your pocket.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    I "run" a FLOSS project that grosses about US$20k/month. Actual expenses are less than US$150/month, which leaves the vast majority available to enter the pockets of the people (currently generally just two) who get paid. This year, we've also chosen to accumulate almost US$40k for future project "purposes". As a resident of New Mexico, I put aside 23% of my gross income for federal and state tax, and that is normally within a few hundred dollars of the correct amount.
  - unreal37 6y ago
    Back when I was making $20k per month working on my own, almost 100% went into my pocket except for taxes. Not sure why you'd look down upon that amount. It's a good lifestyle business if you can do that consistently.
ijidak 6y ago
> Now you can afford to hire talent. The end goal of business is making money, not hiring talent. Managing people is like herding cats. There are many business owners that do not want to herd cats. Nothing wrong with that being your personal aspiration, but it is a dangerous mindset. Seeing hiring as the end goal, can result in you raising overhead because you want to build a fiefdom well before you really need employees.
- gscott 6y ago
  Also the better talent you get.. the more complex they make your coding. Eventually you don't understand it any longer and the talent leaves and now you have to find someone of equal or greater talent to figure it out or you are going to go out of business because you can't don't the coding on your own system.
altdatathrow 6y ago
Why in the world would expenses be $5k/mo for what presumably some really basis SaaS?
peterwoerner 6y ago
You can sell your business. You can't sell your job. Plus 180k a year, especially if location independent, is still a lot. Median income in the USA is 40k.
unreal37 6y ago
You're a meme! https://twitter.com/yongfook/status/1327841741932687360 https://twitter.com/yongfook/status/1327841741932687360

by xwdv 6y ago

HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago

I think you might be amazed at how many businesses are quite successful at levels well below that. Perhaps for a technology business it's a small amount, but it can sustain one family quite comfortably in most parts of the US. That quibble aside, I agree that if you can multiply that kind of success 3 or 5x and automate the living hell out of everything, you could be doing pretty well.

xwdv 6y ago
Since it's a tech forum I always assume we're talking tech money.

amelius 6y ago

> A business making revenue of $20k a month must be a very small idea, for example a service that pings some servers and alerts customers of downtime or maybe some kind of file storage. I don't think this paints a correct picture. For example, there are many developers out there who'd love to work on FOSS 24/7 while having some income from a simple side-project like you mention. But many of these developers still struggle, which says that it just isn't that simple.

xwdv 6y ago
You cannot be working on FOSS 24/7 and also be working on a side project to make money. If it were that easy, many people would do the simple side project and then skip the FOSS part altogether and go do something fun. FOSS is what you can do when you're no longer tied up in the mundane day to day tasks of running a business; when you have employees who keep the business processes you put in place running while you simply make high level decisions and provide capital. And of course these small kind of businesses rarely last forever. Instead of thinking long term, think of this small business as a temporary opportunity to extra value from a market while it is still there. Eventually the opportunity is exhausted the way a mineral field gets harvested and you must find a new opportunity to mine. There's not much time to do both things well. My advice to developers who want to build FOSS for a living is to make money from the software itself by providing implementation and consulting services around it. This way your interests align well with the things that pay your bills, and you can excel at both simultaneously.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

It seems from reading this a few times that you think that a business requires paying other people to work for you. You contrast that with a "job". For many people, the ideal situation is one where they are self-employed, not responsible for payroll, and making $20k/month (or whatever). They are not going to become part of the 1% doing that, but they will be able to lead a very comfortable, self-directed life.

brtkdotse 6y ago
Still, unless you try to dodge taxes, I’d say only half - if that - makes it into your pocket.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  I "run" a FLOSS project that grosses about US$20k/month. Actual expenses are less than US$150/month, which leaves the vast majority available to enter the pockets of the people (currently generally just two) who get paid. This year, we've also chosen to accumulate almost US$40k for future project "purposes". As a resident of New Mexico, I put aside 23% of my gross income for federal and state tax, and that is normally within a few hundred dollars of the correct amount.
- unreal37 6y ago
  Back when I was making $20k per month working on my own, almost 100% went into my pocket except for taxes. Not sure why you'd look down upon that amount. It's a good lifestyle business if you can do that consistently.

ijidak 6y ago

> Now you can afford to hire talent. The end goal of business is making money, not hiring talent. Managing people is like herding cats. There are many business owners that do not want to herd cats. Nothing wrong with that being your personal aspiration, but it is a dangerous mindset. Seeing hiring as the end goal, can result in you raising overhead because you want to build a fiefdom well before you really need employees.

gscott 6y ago
Also the better talent you get.. the more complex they make your coding. Eventually you don't understand it any longer and the talent leaves and now you have to find someone of equal or greater talent to figure it out or you are going to go out of business because you can't don't the coding on your own system.

altdatathrow 6y ago

Why in the world would expenses be $5k/mo for what presumably some really basis SaaS?

peterwoerner 6y ago

You can sell your business. You can't sell your job. Plus 180k a year, especially if location independent, is still a lot. Median income in the USA is 40k.

unreal37 6y ago

You're a meme! https://twitter.com/yongfook/status/1327841741932687360 https://twitter.com/yongfook/status/1327841741932687360