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I don't think a lot of people know what they want. There is just as much guessing as to which job to take as employers have choosing who to hire. Taking the mo

• seppin 6y ago
  Exactly, everyone acts like there is some grand plan/design to all decision making. Everyone is just winging it.
  • dvtrn 6y ago
    I felt that way about my own life. Still so sometimes. Though far, far less than I used to, and feeling noticeably less anxiety about it previously. A Relevant bit of reading, I think, I hope: https://fs.blog/2014/05/hunter-s-thompson-to-hume-logan/ https://fs.blog/2014/05/hunter-s-thompson-to-hume-logan/
    • thrav 6y ago
      Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Generally, they begin with an end in mind. It’s a lot easier to get where you’re going if you know where that is. Or, as the Cheshire Cat says to Alice, “Which way should I go?” “Where do you want to go?” “I don’t much care.” “Then it doesn’t really matter.” (Abridged)
      • dvtrn 6y ago
        Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Probably. What about the rest of us who aren't really looking to those people for any kind of framework? Part of the whole "thinking there's a grand narrative" that caused me anxiety was trying to model after all of these "successful" people, what they were doing, and realizing I wasn't any happier for it. Lately, what's brought me a lot of calm wasn't the chase of an "end state" (so to speak) but more optimizing my path. That, personally, and only speaking personally has been INFINITELY more rewarding. If that's the "it" factor, then so be it ;)
      • nightski 6y ago
        By successful you probably mean in the monetary sense. I think it's easy when you choose that as your goal. Not everyone strives for that. Especially software engineers who have enough where it sometimes already feels like excess and going after more becomes less attractive.
      • hanoz 6y ago
        I'm not sure the Cheshire Cat was really extolling the virtues of knowing where you want to get to.
      • ryandrake 6y ago
        Yea, I'm a big believer in setting goals, and then taking the "most likely" path to get there. My career decision method (disclaimer: it might not work for you) boils down to this: 1. Estimate $X: how much $$$ investment do I need in order for my family to live off interest for Y years so I never work again? For me right now, $X is 5M and Y is 40 years. 2. What do I need to do right now in order to get closer to $X? Maybe it's "study computer engineering". Maybe it's "get a job in tech". Maybe it's "apply for a FAANG company". Maybe it's "Go for promo". Maybe it's "Add more to my retirement savings". Maybe it's even "Change my entire fucking career, I'm at a dead end." Whatever it is will be different for whatever stage of life I'm at. 3. If not at $X, GOTO 1. 4. Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. That's pretty much it for my state machine. I wish I figured this out in my 20s--if I did, I'd be much closer to step 4 than I am now in my 40s.
        • hectormalot 6y ago
          I once read a book that described this line of thinking as the “deferred life plan”.[1] At some level I think everyone is pushing some part of ‘what I really want to do’ to the future. I know I do. At the same time I think it’s important to remember to enjoy the years leading up to step 4, even if that makes the overall path less efficient. 1: the monk and the riddle
        • burntoutfire 6y ago
          > Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. Do you know what that is? I suspect most people don't, especially after spending 20+ years in various jobs.
          • ryandrake 6y ago
            Oh yea. I have a long list of things I'd be doing if I wasn't filling out TPS reports 5 days a week. Some of them I've already started, but on nights and weekends. I can't wait to retire, and know exactly how I'd take advantage of the time!
        • abdabab 6y ago
          > to live off interest for Y years You don’t have to live off interest to retire. 4% withdrawal is good enough [1]. You might be lot closer to retirement than you think. [1] https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates
      • seppin 6y ago
        > Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Sergey and Larry tried to sell Google for 1 million dollars, and failed. Zuck thought Facebook would never be profitable. The idea that "successful people" have plan all along is fiction. They might have a vision and are pursuing said vision, but things rarely turn out anywhere near the way they are intended.
• JayPeaEm 6y ago
  > I don't think a lot of people know what they want. > Just a lack of other goals for which to substitute. Ding ding. I've mentored students/grads from aforementioned prestigious Universities and most of them just genuinely don't know what they want After a few drinks, many have voiced a fear of there being so many options in life and not knowing which would be more fulfilling for them. Many reach a goal (graduation~), don't know what's really next, look around at nearby peers/family, and simply emulate what they see.
  • dpeck 6y ago
    I understand why, those of us without anyone to emulate professionally have a tough path with pitfalls and charlatans in every direction.
  • noisy_boy 6y ago
    I was a mediocre student in a decent university and I basically chose my course because bunch of older seniors we looked up to suggested that the course had good job "prospects". The only thing I discovered from that course is that I loved writing code in Fortran while doing one of the electives (I actually wrote it on paper in my exam because we didn't have access to computers). I call that my the most lucky and important break. I never worked on anything related to what I mainly studied and am thankfully programming now (not in Fortran though) and know that this is what I wanted all along.
  • baxtr 6y ago
    It seems like today, it’s not about creating opportunities to pursue. Instead value is created by eliminating opportunities.
  • hectormalot 6y ago
    I agree that many people don’t know what they want. However, I think this is less about emulation and more about improving ones options while figuring that out. Consulting, Finance, and Bigtech offer a combination of rapid salary growth, low career risk, and a resume item that almost ensures that you pass the CV stage at every future interview. If you’re unsure about your path it is a great way to ensure you have many doors to choose from once you do.
• OJFord 6y ago
  > I don't think a lot of people know what they want. I would go further: I think a lot of people don't know what they want.
  • quickthrower2 6y ago
    And they sure as hell won’t know what they would have wanted to want in 20 years time.
  • srtjstjsj 6y ago
    That's the same thing
    • OJFord 6y ago
      No it isn't, maybe python is clearer: not think(many({ knowswhattheywant(p) for p in people })) != think(many({ not knowswhattheywant(p) for p in people }))
      • dan-robertson 6y ago
        This just isn’t how the semantics of the English language work
        • DangitBobby 6y ago
          The sentences have different meanings. "I don't think a lot of people know what they want." -> I believe it is a rare trait in a person to know what they want. "I think a lot of people don't know what they want." -> I believe it is a common trait for a person not to know what they want. These things are not mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive. Lots of similar sounding statements are subtly different like this in English. "I am not happy" and "I am unhappy" have slightly different meanings as well.
• Clubber 6y ago
  >'I like coding and interesting problems' From what I understand, after all the hullabaloos in interviewing, most programmers at these companies are assigned menial, boring maintenance code tasks all day.
  • username90 6y ago
    Google has a ton of interesting work, but the worst engineers at Google don't get to do it and you are unlikely to get such a position as a new grad. But as long as you do good work you can easily switch to an interesting team after a year. And since the first year as a new grad you mostly learn the ropes how to design services, write tests, write readable code, deploy to production etc, so most things are interesting anyway.
    • abdabab 6y ago
      This is not entirely true. Google doesn’t have enough interesting work for even its “better” engineers. Amount of hoops you have to jump to do any good work is enormous and it takes toll unless you’re in a really good org. It’s a good place to work but you’ll be lot less starry-eyed about Google once you cross your L5 promotion. Also it’s entirely possible to land in a good team as a new-grad. Be a little picky during team selection.
• Boxxed 6y ago
  I completely agree. I really like this article, which I felt like I could have written: https://www.benkuhn.net/hard/ https://www.benkuhn.net/hard/
  • snazz 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing! That article is very good food for thought as a current student.
  • happy_pancake 6y ago
    Great write up
• ashtonkem 6y ago
  One of the key takeaways from the social sciences is that people are really bad at estimating what will make them happy. Even those who have a plan for what they want are often drastically wrong about how it'll make them feel in the long run.
  • vagrantJin 6y ago
    This has legs. Adulthood has been a major disappointment thus far. I can say, without condemning myself, that I can no longer pursue happiness. Happiness is to found in moments and at the bottom of a bottle of beer, the rest of the time is mild stress and contentedness with ones lot and working on my goals without pomp or self adulation.
    • laurent92 6y ago
      Young adulthood is the harshest. Especially exiting the student’s world from the top and entering adult life as the bottom feeder. Hang in there until you succeed at one of the games: family, friends, work, wealth, workteam, Instagram, your rock band, company animal, NGO...
  • michaelbrave 6y ago
    I've often wondered if happiness is something akin to grasping sand, that the harder we pursue it the more elusive it becomes and that rather we happen upon it as we try for things that are meaningful or even just being content with what is already.
    • ashtonkem 6y ago
      There is a very long philosophical and artistic tradition that explores this exact concept.
• chansiky 6y ago
  > it isn't so much a drive for prestige, but just a lack of other goals Couldn't agree more. "Prestige" and the insecurity of people who seek it is the root of why people run the rat race. It is of course a race because we're pushing all our might in an effort to win. Now I'm not against competitiveness, but if were talking 40+ hour weeks of 30+ years of grinding for this abstract concept of prestige, then it's pointless, and those people accruing checkboxes on their resume are running like lemmings off a cliff. It doesn't help that the chimp mind is wired to feel the pain of low status in the pecking order. But, living life to avoid that pain, through decades of work is just throwing your life away, the only life one gets to live, 90 mph off the cliff. This is why working too much is one of the biggest regrets of people on their deathbeds. The people working for prestige, titles, paychecks, and status attainment without a larger idea of accomplishing something either for themselves or for the world really don't do anything, accrue far more security than needed, and waste away their time(decades of it) in insecurity, without actually doing anything, except maybe move forward the company agenda (talk about lack of identity, what was the definition of "cog in the wheel"?). No wonder they regret not living their life at 80. Because they haven't.