6 ms·

I wish Microsoft didn't kill windows mobile. The Android monopoly is terrible

by geogra4 6y ago

AsyncAwait 6y ago
What did that get you that iOS doesn't? As far as I know they didn't allow alternative stores either.
- Closi 6y ago
  It got the market multiple vendors, Apple is the only manufacturer for iOS and Android is the only option for all other manufacturers.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Right. But as a proponent of open devices, neither Google/Android nor Microsoft got me there, because their policies were similar towards the customer, if anything MS was leaning heavier towards the walled garden approach of iOS. So what did the existence of a third player with identical approach bring?
    - Closi 6y ago
      > So what did the existence of a third player with identical approach bring? Like I said, competition with Android. Not just for consumers, but for manufacturers too.
Yetanfou 6y ago
Don't rely on vendors to help you out of this conundrum, instead use what you have at your disposal to escape the duopoly. Get a supported Android device - there are hundreds of those by now - and install an AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. Leave out the Google bits, i.e. no 'gapps', no Google account, no nothing. If you need 'apps' which rely on the Google Services Framework use microG [1] but be aware of the fact that even this free software implementation of GSF needs to connect to Google to do its thing, i.e. try to find 'apps' which don't rely on GSF to start with. Use F-Droid or another alternative repository for you 'app' needs and something like Aurora Store (which you'll find on F-Droid) for those 'apps' which can only be found in the 'Google Play store'. Install a firewall (available on F-Droid and elsewhere) and set it to block all traffic by default. Configure it to allow selected 'apps' and system services to access those parts of the network (LAN, WAN, Mobile Data and VPN) you think they need. You can use the Log service to monitor which apps try to access the network. Once you've got something like this set up the way you want it you're mostly there. The radio firmware will still be outside of your control and probably open to exploitation by the Three Letter Agencies of the world, for now there is not much that can be done about this other than to get a device with totally separate baseband processor, i.e. not integrated into the SoC. These used to be common but are as rare as hens' teeth now. There are some - e.g. the Librem 5 - but most devices come with an integrated baseband subsystem. Then again, for the purpose of circumventing the duopoly this is irrelevant so it can be ignored by all but those who also want to limit access to their devices by TLAs. I've been using AOSP-derived distributions for as long as I've been using Android - close to 10 years - and have never found reason to regret my choice. LineageOS has OTA updates just like vendor distributions, the user experience is that of 'clean Android' - no bloatware. [1] https://microg.org/fdroid.html https://microg.org/fdroid.html
- francis-io 6y ago
  Can this approach still use google apps when needed? I need to use certain things like 2FA apps used by my employer. I want the freedom to be able to quickly install X app if needed.
  - danhor 6y ago
    Depends on what the app needs, but microG seems to help a lot. But the issue with the GSF is that you can't just use it when needed, it's either nothing or everything. Additionally, modifying the firmware to install microG can lead to Safety Net failing, which may also lead to some other apps failing. I use Android without GSF & microG and it's fine for my needs, but that really depends on what types of apps you use.
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    You often can, give it a try. You can install the needed Google app and see if it works. You can use Termux Widget [1] to add enable/disable links for apps so you can keep them around in a disabled state, to be enabled and disabled on demand. Create a directory named .shortcuts in your Termux home directory, any script placed there will be available through the Termux widget. Take Google Maps, an often demanded but extremely intrusive app. If you occasionally want to use it you can add the following scripts to enable and disable it: googlemaps-enable: #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh exec sudo pm enable com.google.android.apps.maps exit 0 googlemaps-disable: #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh exec sudo pm disable com.google.android.apps.maps exit 0 Yes, you need root (and sudo) to do this. [1] https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux:Widget https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux:Widget
foxrider 6y ago
Sailfish is still around, and judging by Windows 10 I can't see how having Windows Mobile could improve anything.
- thdrdt 6y ago
  I really wanted to use Sailfish as Android alternative. But after reading reviews I think it is just not ready and will not be an alternative to Android and iOS any time soon. There are just too many bugs. Linux for mobile is also not an alternative. Since there are so many apps missing it can't be compared with Android and iOS. Well at least for me this includes some banking apps that make my life just so much easier. The only real options right now are the Android forks like LineageOS I think.
izacus 6y ago
Why would Microsoft help here? Windows has bunch of telemetry too.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Supposedly, a device requires an OS (such as Windows Mobile), which supposedly costs money, and does not have telemetry. Microsoft added telemetry to Windows because it is lucrative (up to the point they were giving Windows 10 away). To get rid of that, what we need is legislation, and then hold these corporations such as Google, Microsoft, and Apple accountable.
  - swebs 6y ago
    I've been trying out various FOSS operating systems for the Pinephone lately. Mobian seems to be in a pretty usable state right now. I really think FOSS is the only way forward. Despite their marketing efforts, Microsoft is still the awful evil company its always been.
    - tempest_ 6y ago
      Yeah I have definitely been keeping and eye on the pinephone and the various OSs. It doesnt look like it is quite there yet for me but I will be considering something like it in the next couple years.
- lenkite 6y ago
  AFAIK Windows telemetry can be easily disabled.
  - yakireev 6y ago
    What? It's the opposite of this, in Windows 10 telemetry can not be disabled at all. All you get is a choice between "Basic" / "Enhanced" / "Full (recommended)" modes.
    - lenkite 6y ago
indymike 6y ago
Windows mobile wasn't going to change the world. That said, I'd love to see a real alternative to iOS and Android if for no reason than my phone is a very powerful, very real computer and I can't use it as such.
- fctorial 6y ago
  https://termux.com/ https://termux.com/
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  You say this, but in 2020, Google is still working on adding features Windows Mobile had in 2014. As a former WinMo user, it's sad watching everyone else finally catching up.
  - noisem4ker 6y ago
    Any examples? I can think of one, but in the opposite way: how Google removed the Exchange integration service from Android.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Watching Apple and Google both adopt dark mode recently was entertaining, Google is still trying to support dark mode across their product suite: Windows Mobile supported dark mode across the entire platform and suggested app developers do as well since the WP7 days. And then of course, you have both Google flirting with Android apps on Chromebooks, and the new M1 Macs being able to run iOS apps, when Universal Windows Apps were a thing over five years ago. They've all had this a little while, but Microsoft was ahead of the game on being able to allow/deny individual permissions to given apps before either Apple or Google was as well. I mean, Microsoft didn't have the market capture, but their platform was technologically in 2015 where their competitors are in 2020.
- swebs 6y ago
  There are full Linux distros for phones nowadays. They're still in alpha stages, but they're getting better all the time https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Software_Releases https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Software_Releases
deelowe 6y ago
Umm. Have you used the retail version of win 10?
BlueTemplar 6y ago
That might make the issue worse. See one way around it : PiHole. Well Pi has Microsoft firmware and PiHole software and its blocklists are hosted on Microsoft owned Github.
nunodonato 6y ago
I'm usually on the "anti" microsoft side, but owned a Lumia and it was the best smartphone to date! That thing was so fluid and intuitive, simple and well designed. I miss it!
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  Yeah, I absolutely loved my Lumia... best phone I ever had. Crushed when it stopped working after... 5 years?

I wish Microsoft didn't kill windows mobile. The Android monopoly is terrible

AsyncAwait 6y ago

What did that get you that iOS doesn't? As far as I know they didn't allow alternative stores either.

Closi 6y ago
It got the market multiple vendors, Apple is the only manufacturer for iOS and Android is the only option for all other manufacturers.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Right. But as a proponent of open devices, neither Google/Android nor Microsoft got me there, because their policies were similar towards the customer, if anything MS was leaning heavier towards the walled garden approach of iOS. So what did the existence of a third player with identical approach bring?
  - Closi 6y ago
    > So what did the existence of a third player with identical approach bring? Like I said, competition with Android. Not just for consumers, but for manufacturers too.

Yetanfou 6y ago

Don't rely on vendors to help you out of this conundrum, instead use what you have at your disposal to escape the duopoly. Get a supported Android device - there are hundreds of those by now - and install an AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. Leave out the Google bits, i.e. no 'gapps', no Google account, no nothing. If you need 'apps' which rely on the Google Services Framework use microG [1] but be aware of the fact that even this free software implementation of GSF needs to connect to Google to do its thing, i.e. try to find 'apps' which don't rely on GSF to start with. Use F-Droid or another alternative repository for you 'app' needs and something like Aurora Store (which you'll find on F-Droid) for those 'apps' which can only be found in the 'Google Play store'. Install a firewall (available on F-Droid and elsewhere) and set it to block all traffic by default. Configure it to allow selected 'apps' and system services to access those parts of the network (LAN, WAN, Mobile Data and VPN) you think they need. You can use the Log service to monitor which apps try to access the network. Once you've got something like this set up the way you want it you're mostly there. The radio firmware will still be outside of your control and probably open to exploitation by the Three Letter Agencies of the world, for now there is not much that can be done about this other than to get a device with totally separate baseband processor, i.e. not integrated into the SoC. These used to be common but are as rare as hens' teeth now. There are some - e.g. the Librem 5 - but most devices come with an integrated baseband subsystem. Then again, for the purpose of circumventing the duopoly this is irrelevant so it can be ignored by all but those who also want to limit access to their devices by TLAs. I've been using AOSP-derived distributions for as long as I've been using Android - close to 10 years - and have never found reason to regret my choice. LineageOS has OTA updates just like vendor distributions, the user experience is that of 'clean Android' - no bloatware. [1] https://microg.org/fdroid.html https://microg.org/fdroid.html

francis-io 6y ago
Can this approach still use google apps when needed? I need to use certain things like 2FA apps used by my employer. I want the freedom to be able to quickly install X app if needed.
- danhor 6y ago
  Depends on what the app needs, but microG seems to help a lot. But the issue with the GSF is that you can't just use it when needed, it's either nothing or everything. Additionally, modifying the firmware to install microG can lead to Safety Net failing, which may also lead to some other apps failing. I use Android without GSF & microG and it's fine for my needs, but that really depends on what types of apps you use.
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  You often can, give it a try. You can install the needed Google app and see if it works. You can use Termux Widget [1] to add enable/disable links for apps so you can keep them around in a disabled state, to be enabled and disabled on demand. Create a directory named .shortcuts in your Termux home directory, any script placed there will be available through the Termux widget. Take Google Maps, an often demanded but extremely intrusive app. If you occasionally want to use it you can add the following scripts to enable and disable it: googlemaps-enable: #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh exec sudo pm enable com.google.android.apps.maps exit 0 googlemaps-disable: #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh exec sudo pm disable com.google.android.apps.maps exit 0 Yes, you need root (and sudo) to do this. [1] https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux:Widget https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux:Widget

foxrider 6y ago

Sailfish is still around, and judging by Windows 10 I can't see how having Windows Mobile could improve anything.

thdrdt 6y ago
I really wanted to use Sailfish as Android alternative. But after reading reviews I think it is just not ready and will not be an alternative to Android and iOS any time soon. There are just too many bugs. Linux for mobile is also not an alternative. Since there are so many apps missing it can't be compared with Android and iOS. Well at least for me this includes some banking apps that make my life just so much easier. The only real options right now are the Android forks like LineageOS I think.

izacus 6y ago

Why would Microsoft help here? Windows has bunch of telemetry too.

Fnoord 6y ago
Supposedly, a device requires an OS (such as Windows Mobile), which supposedly costs money, and does not have telemetry. Microsoft added telemetry to Windows because it is lucrative (up to the point they were giving Windows 10 away). To get rid of that, what we need is legislation, and then hold these corporations such as Google, Microsoft, and Apple accountable.
- swebs 6y ago
  I've been trying out various FOSS operating systems for the Pinephone lately. Mobian seems to be in a pretty usable state right now. I really think FOSS is the only way forward. Despite their marketing efforts, Microsoft is still the awful evil company its always been.
  - tempest_ 6y ago
    Yeah I have definitely been keeping and eye on the pinephone and the various OSs. It doesnt look like it is quite there yet for me but I will be considering something like it in the next couple years.
lenkite 6y ago
AFAIK Windows telemetry can be easily disabled.
- yakireev 6y ago
  What? It's the opposite of this, in Windows 10 telemetry can not be disabled at all. All you get is a choice between "Basic" / "Enhanced" / "Full (recommended)" modes.
  - lenkite 6y ago

indymike 6y ago

Windows mobile wasn't going to change the world. That said, I'd love to see a real alternative to iOS and Android if for no reason than my phone is a very powerful, very real computer and I can't use it as such.

fctorial 6y ago
https://termux.com/ https://termux.com/
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
You say this, but in 2020, Google is still working on adding features Windows Mobile had in 2014. As a former WinMo user, it's sad watching everyone else finally catching up.
- noisem4ker 6y ago
  Any examples? I can think of one, but in the opposite way: how Google removed the Exchange integration service from Android.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Watching Apple and Google both adopt dark mode recently was entertaining, Google is still trying to support dark mode across their product suite: Windows Mobile supported dark mode across the entire platform and suggested app developers do as well since the WP7 days. And then of course, you have both Google flirting with Android apps on Chromebooks, and the new M1 Macs being able to run iOS apps, when Universal Windows Apps were a thing over five years ago. They've all had this a little while, but Microsoft was ahead of the game on being able to allow/deny individual permissions to given apps before either Apple or Google was as well. I mean, Microsoft didn't have the market capture, but their platform was technologically in 2015 where their competitors are in 2020.
swebs 6y ago
There are full Linux distros for phones nowadays. They're still in alpha stages, but they're getting better all the time https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Software_Releases https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Software_Releases

deelowe 6y ago

Umm. Have you used the retail version of win 10?

BlueTemplar 6y ago

That might make the issue worse. See one way around it : PiHole. Well Pi has Microsoft firmware and PiHole software and its blocklists are hosted on Microsoft owned Github.

nunodonato 6y ago

I'm usually on the "anti" microsoft side, but owned a Lumia and it was the best smartphone to date! That thing was so fluid and intuitive, simple and well designed. I miss it!

RonanTheGrey 6y ago
Yeah, I absolutely loved my Lumia... best phone I ever had. Crushed when it stopped working after... 5 years?