5 ms·

True story: My Dad flew with BA and once a year (until the age of 25), I could get an annual free flight with him. For my last free trip we went to Hong Kong a

True story: My Dad flew with BA and once a year (until the age of 25), I could get an annual free flight with him. For my last free trip we went to Hong Kong and Tim Lancaster was piloting, so I got to meet him - enjoyably, everyone affectionately knew him as 'Tim out the window'. He gave me a harrowing account of the whole experience, worst of all was trying to tilt his head backwards so he could breathe. Also interestingly, as we were approaching to land in HK, we suddenly started gaining altitude again and ended up doing a lap round the island because, "The runway was busy". Tim later confessed to me that he'd hit the wrong button and withdrew the approach flaps. They also regaled me with stories of the old HK landing strip that involved flying so low through the city, you could see into people's rooms, shortly before banking hard to the right when you saw a giant chequer board on the side of a mountain, and landing. I then spend a week going out every night in Hong Kong city with several plane loads of Airline Stewardesses. That's another story, but suffice to say, I was very lucky 24 year old boy.

tim44 6y ago
Well timmed.
bhrgunatha 6y ago
> They also regaled me with stories of the old HK landing strip that involved flying so low through the city, you could see into people's rooms I flew in that way several times. It was always a treat. There was also the opposite point of view, being on the streets. You'd suddenly see a very, very low aircraft appear briefly with a deafening roar from above the buildings. There was very little noise build up as a warning.
- Corinthian 6y ago
  I think I remember being told that pilots needed ten years flying experience before they were even allowed to attempt this landing. That can't be a pleasant first-attempt at all. I can imagine it must have been an incredible site from the ground. I wonder if that landing is in the new Microsoft Flight Simulator?
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Not by default as it mirrors today's world and the airport is obviously gone, but there's third party mods already! https://flightsim.to/file/642/vhhx-kai-tak-airport-hong-kong https://flightsim.to/file/642/vhhx-kai-tak-airport-hong-kong
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      > These days several roads cross the site so you'll be enjoying a steady stream of cars plus a wonderful light show at night that can't be removed.
  - andi999 6y ago
    I heard simulator training on this landing was mandatory for beeing allowed to land there. Also I know smbdy who lived in downtown HK during that period. I asked how was it with the planes, respond was: it looks like you can touch them with your hands when they fly above you. I asked about the noise. Noise wasnt the problem (since it was gone fast) but the streets smelled bad of kerosine/exhaust for some time which was the real nuisance.
    - tim333 6y ago
      I lived a while under the flight path near the airport. My main memory of inconvenience is they would drown out the dialogue of whatever you were watching on TV for about 30 seconds. There was a park behind the house next to the chequer board where the planes passed so close you could see the rivets.
- rswail 6y ago
  I was travelling to HK a lot in 1995/6. I was lucky enough to sit in the cockpit (ah, pre 9/11 days) on approach/landing to Kai Tak in a 767 and then a 747. The most amazing thing was that the guidance (the famous checkerboard) basically directed the automatic landing to fly the planes into the mountain. So they'd be on automatic pilot until a certain point, when the pilot took full manual control to do the right turn over Kowloon to land. Things I remember most: There were no flashing lights allowed in Kowloon advertising etc, up in the cockpit, the pilot pointed out that there were guidance lights flashing upwards along the flight path in Kowloon that you couldn't see from the ground. A 747 is big. I remember the 767 automatic voice announcement as we got close to the ground, 500 feet, 400, 300, 200, 100, 50... I was expecting the same in the 747, but it's much bigger so I felt us touch down well before I expected. The amazing feeling watching the pilot making slight movements and the entire plane banking. There was this hidden power that was pretty exhilarating.
howlgarnish 6y ago
That would be Hong Kong Kai Tak "Heart Attack" approach: https://youtu.be/NiPyrfEuOeo https://youtu.be/NiPyrfEuOeo There's one particular video (which I can't find right now) which shows an airplane about to land at an angle due to strong crosswinds, then essentially hovering in place for a moment so it can reorient correctly before touching down. I'm still not sure how that's physically possible with a jetliner (ground effect?).
- FartyMcFarter 6y ago
  Probably an optical illusion? I don't think a plane can hover over a fixed point, unless the headwinds are strong hurricane force or something. With very strong headwind, a normal plane could theoretically land vertically, or even backwards. I wouldn't recommend it though.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Can’t do it with a 747, but with a lightweight bush plane and a steady wind you can. https://youtu.be/QFllgHbjnlU https://youtu.be/QFllgHbjnlU
    - soneil 6y ago
      Yes - "hovering" in a fixed-wing is very much possible, and even desirable for STOL landings (very popular & competitive in the Alaskan bush scene). It's still very much an observer-effect illusion however. The observer considers the speed in terms of groundspeed, the physics consider the speed in terms of airspeed. If the difference between the two values exceeds the stall speed of the airframe, the effect is sustainable.
- ppur 6y ago
  I think you might be looking for https://youtu.be/bKqO6gdJIz8 https://youtu.be/bKqO6gdJIz8 (at about 0:33 in) Shows a 747 banking at an incredible angle (though I feel like that hovering thing may just be an optical illusion)
  - 6y ago
clubdorothe 6y ago
> spend a week going out every night in Hong Kong city with several plane loads of Airline Stewardesses. That's another story, but suffice to say, I was very lucky 24 year old boy I want to hear that story
GekkePrutser 6y ago
Ahh Kai Tak. I wish I ever flew into there while it was still open. The approach is legendary.
ilamont 6y ago
My wife worked for an airline and on one flight to Kai Tak I was invited to sit in the jump seat (the position behind the captain and opposite the navigator or engineer) during the approach. It was utterly amazing and terrifying at the same time, especially the looming mountain which had a giant blinking arrow indicating the direction of turn. This was (obviously) many years ago.

tim44 6y ago

Well timmed.

bhrgunatha 6y ago

> They also regaled me with stories of the old HK landing strip that involved flying so low through the city, you could see into people's rooms I flew in that way several times. It was always a treat. There was also the opposite point of view, being on the streets. You'd suddenly see a very, very low aircraft appear briefly with a deafening roar from above the buildings. There was very little noise build up as a warning.

Corinthian 6y ago
I think I remember being told that pilots needed ten years flying experience before they were even allowed to attempt this landing. That can't be a pleasant first-attempt at all. I can imagine it must have been an incredible site from the ground. I wonder if that landing is in the new Microsoft Flight Simulator?
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Not by default as it mirrors today's world and the airport is obviously gone, but there's third party mods already! https://flightsim.to/file/642/vhhx-kai-tak-airport-hong-kong https://flightsim.to/file/642/vhhx-kai-tak-airport-hong-kong
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    > These days several roads cross the site so you'll be enjoying a steady stream of cars plus a wonderful light show at night that can't be removed.
- andi999 6y ago
  I heard simulator training on this landing was mandatory for beeing allowed to land there. Also I know smbdy who lived in downtown HK during that period. I asked how was it with the planes, respond was: it looks like you can touch them with your hands when they fly above you. I asked about the noise. Noise wasnt the problem (since it was gone fast) but the streets smelled bad of kerosine/exhaust for some time which was the real nuisance.
  - tim333 6y ago
    I lived a while under the flight path near the airport. My main memory of inconvenience is they would drown out the dialogue of whatever you were watching on TV for about 30 seconds. There was a park behind the house next to the chequer board where the planes passed so close you could see the rivets.
rswail 6y ago
I was travelling to HK a lot in 1995/6. I was lucky enough to sit in the cockpit (ah, pre 9/11 days) on approach/landing to Kai Tak in a 767 and then a 747. The most amazing thing was that the guidance (the famous checkerboard) basically directed the automatic landing to fly the planes into the mountain. So they'd be on automatic pilot until a certain point, when the pilot took full manual control to do the right turn over Kowloon to land. Things I remember most: There were no flashing lights allowed in Kowloon advertising etc, up in the cockpit, the pilot pointed out that there were guidance lights flashing upwards along the flight path in Kowloon that you couldn't see from the ground. A 747 is big. I remember the 767 automatic voice announcement as we got close to the ground, 500 feet, 400, 300, 200, 100, 50... I was expecting the same in the 747, but it's much bigger so I felt us touch down well before I expected. The amazing feeling watching the pilot making slight movements and the entire plane banking. There was this hidden power that was pretty exhilarating.

howlgarnish 6y ago

That would be Hong Kong Kai Tak "Heart Attack" approach: https://youtu.be/NiPyrfEuOeo https://youtu.be/NiPyrfEuOeo There's one particular video (which I can't find right now) which shows an airplane about to land at an angle due to strong crosswinds, then essentially hovering in place for a moment so it can reorient correctly before touching down. I'm still not sure how that's physically possible with a jetliner (ground effect?).

FartyMcFarter 6y ago
Probably an optical illusion? I don't think a plane can hover over a fixed point, unless the headwinds are strong hurricane force or something. With very strong headwind, a normal plane could theoretically land vertically, or even backwards. I wouldn't recommend it though.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Can’t do it with a 747, but with a lightweight bush plane and a steady wind you can. https://youtu.be/QFllgHbjnlU https://youtu.be/QFllgHbjnlU
  - soneil 6y ago
    Yes - "hovering" in a fixed-wing is very much possible, and even desirable for STOL landings (very popular & competitive in the Alaskan bush scene). It's still very much an observer-effect illusion however. The observer considers the speed in terms of groundspeed, the physics consider the speed in terms of airspeed. If the difference between the two values exceeds the stall speed of the airframe, the effect is sustainable.
ppur 6y ago
I think you might be looking for https://youtu.be/bKqO6gdJIz8 https://youtu.be/bKqO6gdJIz8 (at about 0:33 in) Shows a 747 banking at an incredible angle (though I feel like that hovering thing may just be an optical illusion)
- 6y ago

clubdorothe 6y ago

> spend a week going out every night in Hong Kong city with several plane loads of Airline Stewardesses. That's another story, but suffice to say, I was very lucky 24 year old boy I want to hear that story

GekkePrutser 6y ago

Ahh Kai Tak. I wish I ever flew into there while it was still open. The approach is legendary.

ilamont 6y ago

My wife worked for an airline and on one flight to Kai Tak I was invited to sit in the jump seat (the position behind the captain and opposite the navigator or engineer) during the approach. It was utterly amazing and terrifying at the same time, especially the looming mountain which had a giant blinking arrow indicating the direction of turn. This was (obviously) many years ago.