5 ms·

Mostly Python & JS in containers + the infra-supporting work. I guess my main concerns are OS packages (e.g. image processing libs) and docker/k8s. And RE ecos

by kinix 6y ago

Mostly Python & JS in containers + the infra-supporting work. I guess my main concerns are OS packages (e.g. image processing libs) and docker/k8s. And RE ecosystem: yeah I hope you're right (and think you are), I guess I'm just wondering what the odds are, and how feasible a switch back to Linux is without losing out on he niceness of mac-land.

rovr138 6y ago
There's currently an issue with Docker and they weren't able to fix it because the dev machines they where sending out didn't have virtualization enabled so they couldn't work on it. This issue is regarding to starting docker. Once that's up, there will be an issue with prebuilt images if they don't provide an ARM build. As more machines get out there, this should start to fix itself. For Python and JS, I don't foresee an issue with the projects that would prevent this. It's then an issue of who manages the project and if they want to do it or someone else forking it and providing arm builds. Not a big issue IMO. It's a fairly easy thing to do. Anecdote, switching back to Linux, I've toyed with it recently and... it's not as frictionless (which sucks). I run a bit of Linux infrastructure and I'm on servers all the time. But on laptops, I don't know why, I kept having issues. I went in knowing I won't have the integration and whatnot, but I still had some issues. I ran it on extra, older, Apple hardware I have. Not sure if that might be why and newer or more compatible hardware would work better.
- kinix 6y ago
  RE docker: yeah I saw that, I've no doubt that they'll get a working build - I kind of suspect that how long it takes might be a good idea of how hard it is to get working :D RE docker images: yeah thankfully the big hitters (alpine etc) will be fine so should be ok here. I have less confidence in supporting libs though. RE linux: Argh, sounds like we're of similar backgrounds and this is my fear to be honest. I've heard good things about dell/lenovo hardware so I'd probs have to swing that way for the next refresh, but yeah i suspect it won't be as painful as I'd like.
  - wiredfool 6y ago
    I'd be impressed if they could get a docker on the Mac working with not absolutely crappy volume mount performance.
- e12e 6y ago
  > Once that's up, there will be an issue with prebuilt images if they don't provide an ARM build. Does docker run on macos (amd64) now? I thought it ran in a Linux vm? If they get the vm to run, all images should work exactly the same as before (modulus any hit for amd64-on-arm vs amd64-on-amd64)?
  - rovr138 6y ago
    They do. It uses a Linux environment for it. The issue is anything compiled or baked into the image using x86, won’t be able to run without yet another translation layer. Could end up being Mac arm > qemu emulating amd64 cpu > docker vm (Linux amd64) > whatever application Could be done, just adds another layer to translate things and overhead.
askmike 6y ago
I don't think a blanket answer will apply to everyone here: which specific tools that YOU use won't support ARM (and until when exactly)? If some tools won't support it for a while, can you live without them? Do you need to run all these backend tools on your own machine? I think many people are trying to figure these questions for them out right now, as there is very little information yet on ARM support from many tools.
- kinix 6y ago
  Yeah, totally agree - ironically I think it's rad that apple are kind of forcing this adoption of ARM. Could lead to cheaper/more energy efficient servers as adoption increases. I guess it just isn't the kind of thing I'm keen to be an early adopter for (admittedly selfishly).
  - askmike 6y ago
    Yea personally I'm the same boat. But going out and buying a macbook with an intel processor also doesn't seem a great idea as that's definitely not the focus going forward.

by kinix 6y ago

rovr138 6y ago

There's currently an issue with Docker and they weren't able to fix it because the dev machines they where sending out didn't have virtualization enabled so they couldn't work on it. This issue is regarding to starting docker. Once that's up, there will be an issue with prebuilt images if they don't provide an ARM build. As more machines get out there, this should start to fix itself. For Python and JS, I don't foresee an issue with the projects that would prevent this. It's then an issue of who manages the project and if they want to do it or someone else forking it and providing arm builds. Not a big issue IMO. It's a fairly easy thing to do. Anecdote, switching back to Linux, I've toyed with it recently and... it's not as frictionless (which sucks). I run a bit of Linux infrastructure and I'm on servers all the time. But on laptops, I don't know why, I kept having issues. I went in knowing I won't have the integration and whatnot, but I still had some issues. I ran it on extra, older, Apple hardware I have. Not sure if that might be why and newer or more compatible hardware would work better.

kinix 6y ago
RE docker: yeah I saw that, I've no doubt that they'll get a working build - I kind of suspect that how long it takes might be a good idea of how hard it is to get working :D RE docker images: yeah thankfully the big hitters (alpine etc) will be fine so should be ok here. I have less confidence in supporting libs though. RE linux: Argh, sounds like we're of similar backgrounds and this is my fear to be honest. I've heard good things about dell/lenovo hardware so I'd probs have to swing that way for the next refresh, but yeah i suspect it won't be as painful as I'd like.
- wiredfool 6y ago
  I'd be impressed if they could get a docker on the Mac working with not absolutely crappy volume mount performance.
e12e 6y ago
> Once that's up, there will be an issue with prebuilt images if they don't provide an ARM build. Does docker run on macos (amd64) now? I thought it ran in a Linux vm? If they get the vm to run, all images should work exactly the same as before (modulus any hit for amd64-on-arm vs amd64-on-amd64)?
- rovr138 6y ago
  They do. It uses a Linux environment for it. The issue is anything compiled or baked into the image using x86, won’t be able to run without yet another translation layer. Could end up being Mac arm > qemu emulating amd64 cpu > docker vm (Linux amd64) > whatever application Could be done, just adds another layer to translate things and overhead.

askmike 6y ago

I don't think a blanket answer will apply to everyone here: which specific tools that YOU use won't support ARM (and until when exactly)? If some tools won't support it for a while, can you live without them? Do you need to run all these backend tools on your own machine? I think many people are trying to figure these questions for them out right now, as there is very little information yet on ARM support from many tools.

kinix 6y ago
Yeah, totally agree - ironically I think it's rad that apple are kind of forcing this adoption of ARM. Could lead to cheaper/more energy efficient servers as adoption increases. I guess it just isn't the kind of thing I'm keen to be an early adopter for (admittedly selfishly).
- askmike 6y ago
  Yea personally I'm the same boat. But going out and buying a macbook with an intel processor also doesn't seem a great idea as that's definitely not the focus going forward.