7 ms·

Got injured awhile back. Disability decided to play hardball. Gig jobs are all that kept family off the street while I recovered. Starting and stopping anyti

Got injured awhile back. Disability decided to play hardball. Gig jobs are all that kept family off the street while I recovered. Starting and stopping anytime as my body could tolerate. Or renting out rooms on Airbnb. Sometimes it took me 4 hours to change sheets and tidy up, but it made the difference. Not saying their good companies. But gigs was crazy valuable to me.

yohannparis 6y ago
The issue is not the gig economy but businesses that force rules and behaviours (when to work, which client, you cannot refuse jobs, etc.) without labour protection. Either you are a platform that connects you to a potential client (like a powerful yellow page), or you are an employer.
- Jommi 6y ago
  And where does the line go?
  - yohannparis 6y ago
    Can you please elaborate, because, in the case of Uber/Lyft, it's simple, if you force when drivers go, they can't refuse clients, etc. Then you are not "just" a platform to connect driver and people looking for a ride. If you are imposing rules, other than local regulations, to the drivers, you are an employer, and you should follow labour law. If you use Stripe API for examples, if you follow the law, and their T&C of services, they can't force you to sell to some clients, etc.
    - Jommi 6y ago
      So if you do only one of those things are you still an employer or now a platform?
      - yohannparis 6y ago
        I'm still confused, because you are not giving any example or explanation for "one of those things". As soon as you tell somebody how to make their money, outside of government regulations, you are in fact an employer. Which is different from a contractual work where you can define requirements. In the case of Uber/Lyft (and other Gig economy for that matter) you do not sign a contract with each transaction you do with them. Therefore, your contract with them, it's to pick up and drive users of the platform under terms set by the platform. This is obviously an employer - employee relationship.
- xeromal 6y ago
  I think we need more than an either/or. Not many employers in the US allow a person to set their own hours and locations.
  - rectang 6y ago
    Divorcing health insurance from employment entirely would help a great deal.
tor_anon_1 6y ago
"thank God for these benevolent companies that lobby against universal healthcare and labor unions, so they can then be there for us when we don't have healthcare or union protection" Put another way: "Thank God purdue pharma is now manufacturing the cure[1] for the opioid epidemic that purdue pharma started" 1. https://apnews.com/article/6751b84767e8a1ebbaea6cb628ac2a11 https://apnews.com/article/6751b84767e8a1ebbaea6cb628ac2a11
- wavepruner 6y ago
  As a disabled person who has also benefitted immensely from Uber, I hear this a lot, and it is really frustrating. No one will help me, especially progressive leaning people. You don't get political or social brownie points for helping disabled people the way you would for other minority groups who are struggling. We are constantly ignored and forgotten. I was in a situation where I needed money for healthcare that will never be covered by insurance, especially government sponsored universal insurance (EDIT: it will be covered eventually, maybe in 10 years). Gig jobs played a key role in my ability to purchase that healthcare and survive. Regular employers will never hire me. Unions will never let me join them, because I can't meet their requirements and make life harder for their able bodied employees. Gig work is the only option. Healthy people aren't nearly as caring as they'd like to believe, especially progressives.
  - esrauch 6y ago
    I'm confused by the "needed money for healthcare that would never be covered by universal insurance", are you sure such costs wouldn't be covered by NHS or similar had you lived in another country?
    - wavepruner 6y ago
      No, the treatments I need are experimental, and there is a tremendous amount of hostility from healthcare workers directed at people with my illness. It is very controversial. Europeans are just as fucked as Americans when they have this illness.
rectang 6y ago
I drove for Lyft for a while while taking a break from software. Then I got t-boned by a red-light runner. Fortunately no one was injured. I was on my way to pick up a passenger, but it was only me in the vehicle. When I went to make my insurance claim to fix several thousand dollars worth of damage to my car, I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a rideshare rider and which was compatible with Lyft's own insurance, I wasn't covered. I had to eat the bill. Fortunately, I was a software engineer moonlighting and I had savings to take care of it, rather than a typical Lyft driver living with far less cushion. This sort of thing doesn't happen when you're an employee. The essence of the gig economy is doing away with hard-won labor protections and increasing profitability by offloading risk onto workers, creating the statistical certainty that a fraction of your workforce will experience circumstances far more tragic than mine.
- kemiller2002 6y ago
  I think this is the key statement to all of this. No one thinks about the risk. Running a business, which in a sense you are doing by being a contractor, is all about managing risk. When I ran a food business, that was 90% of my tasks, and I had to make sure that things continued to run no matter what happened. When you start realizing how exposed you are to bad things happening, it starts to wear on you. What happens if an employee gets hurt, or the food is prepped wrong (and someone dies)? How much money is it going to cost and will it bankrupt you? Companies like Uber and Lyft don't explain that to people. They don't explain the risk they are taking on by earning a few extra dollars. Will most people be ok, sure? Bad things happen even to people who take all the precautions, and it is an expensive and extremely painful lesson to learn.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    This is a terrible argument. If every single small thing that could happen to you was explained to you before you made any decision, I can guarantee you would never make any new decisions.
    - kemiller2002 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
joejohnson 6y ago
It’s an insane society that would force someone to work through their recovery to an injury in the first place.
- gowld 6y ago
  Why? I broke my leg. Why can't I work with my hands?
  - tor_anon_1 6y ago
    you really don't see how weak this counterpoint is? e.g. if you break your hands what exactly are you going to do with your legs?
    - viscanti 6y ago
      > if you break your hands what exactly are you going to do with your legs? Buy a two person bike and be the pedal power for a bike courier?
    - bloodorange 6y ago
      Wear a board on your front and back, with a message about worker protections, universal healthcare and walk around town spreading that message and hope it has an effect.
      - tor_anon_1 6y ago
        is this supposed to be facetious? because my point is exactly that there is nothing to do other than that and that to pretend that you can "elbow grease" and "work ethic" your way out of debilitating injury is just asinine.
        bloodorange 6y ago
        Indeed, my post was in agreement with you.
piva00 6y ago
Gig companies shouldn't take the place of a functioning welfare in a rich society, I'm glad it helped you individually but it's symptom of a much larger issue that when patched that way just hides it away into the future...
- treeman79 6y ago
  In a welfare society I would still have to convince someone I couldn’t work. Get approval, etc. Healthcare industry is currently a mess. I have excellent coverage. Even still I couldn’t get anyone to take me seriously. Only when organ failure started up in earnest did doctors realize I wasn’t making it up.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SN76477 6y ago
I did doordash Grubhub Ubereats etc for about a year while I had no income. It was a lot of hours, barely paid the bills(Single income, with child household), did madness on my vehicle. It was good because it was all I had but I wouldn't want to go back to that.

yohannparis 6y ago

The issue is not the gig economy but businesses that force rules and behaviours (when to work, which client, you cannot refuse jobs, etc.) without labour protection. Either you are a platform that connects you to a potential client (like a powerful yellow page), or you are an employer.

Jommi 6y ago
And where does the line go?
- yohannparis 6y ago
  Can you please elaborate, because, in the case of Uber/Lyft, it's simple, if you force when drivers go, they can't refuse clients, etc. Then you are not "just" a platform to connect driver and people looking for a ride. If you are imposing rules, other than local regulations, to the drivers, you are an employer, and you should follow labour law. If you use Stripe API for examples, if you follow the law, and their T&C of services, they can't force you to sell to some clients, etc.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    So if you do only one of those things are you still an employer or now a platform?
    - yohannparis 6y ago
      I'm still confused, because you are not giving any example or explanation for "one of those things". As soon as you tell somebody how to make their money, outside of government regulations, you are in fact an employer. Which is different from a contractual work where you can define requirements. In the case of Uber/Lyft (and other Gig economy for that matter) you do not sign a contract with each transaction you do with them. Therefore, your contract with them, it's to pick up and drive users of the platform under terms set by the platform. This is obviously an employer - employee relationship.
xeromal 6y ago
I think we need more than an either/or. Not many employers in the US allow a person to set their own hours and locations.
- rectang 6y ago
  Divorcing health insurance from employment entirely would help a great deal.

tor_anon_1 6y ago

"thank God for these benevolent companies that lobby against universal healthcare and labor unions, so they can then be there for us when we don't have healthcare or union protection" Put another way: "Thank God purdue pharma is now manufacturing the cure[1] for the opioid epidemic that purdue pharma started" 1. https://apnews.com/article/6751b84767e8a1ebbaea6cb628ac2a11 https://apnews.com/article/6751b84767e8a1ebbaea6cb628ac2a11

wavepruner 6y ago
As a disabled person who has also benefitted immensely from Uber, I hear this a lot, and it is really frustrating. No one will help me, especially progressive leaning people. You don't get political or social brownie points for helping disabled people the way you would for other minority groups who are struggling. We are constantly ignored and forgotten. I was in a situation where I needed money for healthcare that will never be covered by insurance, especially government sponsored universal insurance (EDIT: it will be covered eventually, maybe in 10 years). Gig jobs played a key role in my ability to purchase that healthcare and survive. Regular employers will never hire me. Unions will never let me join them, because I can't meet their requirements and make life harder for their able bodied employees. Gig work is the only option. Healthy people aren't nearly as caring as they'd like to believe, especially progressives.
- esrauch 6y ago
  I'm confused by the "needed money for healthcare that would never be covered by universal insurance", are you sure such costs wouldn't be covered by NHS or similar had you lived in another country?
  - wavepruner 6y ago
    No, the treatments I need are experimental, and there is a tremendous amount of hostility from healthcare workers directed at people with my illness. It is very controversial. Europeans are just as fucked as Americans when they have this illness.

rectang 6y ago

I drove for Lyft for a while while taking a break from software. Then I got t-boned by a red-light runner. Fortunately no one was injured. I was on my way to pick up a passenger, but it was only me in the vehicle. When I went to make my insurance claim to fix several thousand dollars worth of damage to my car, I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a rideshare rider and which was compatible with Lyft's own insurance, I wasn't covered. I had to eat the bill. Fortunately, I was a software engineer moonlighting and I had savings to take care of it, rather than a typical Lyft driver living with far less cushion. This sort of thing doesn't happen when you're an employee. The essence of the gig economy is doing away with hard-won labor protections and increasing profitability by offloading risk onto workers, creating the statistical certainty that a fraction of your workforce will experience circumstances far more tragic than mine.

kemiller2002 6y ago
I think this is the key statement to all of this. No one thinks about the risk. Running a business, which in a sense you are doing by being a contractor, is all about managing risk. When I ran a food business, that was 90% of my tasks, and I had to make sure that things continued to run no matter what happened. When you start realizing how exposed you are to bad things happening, it starts to wear on you. What happens if an employee gets hurt, or the food is prepped wrong (and someone dies)? How much money is it going to cost and will it bankrupt you? Companies like Uber and Lyft don't explain that to people. They don't explain the risk they are taking on by earning a few extra dollars. Will most people be ok, sure? Bad things happen even to people who take all the precautions, and it is an expensive and extremely painful lesson to learn.
- Jommi 6y ago
  This is a terrible argument. If every single small thing that could happen to you was explained to you before you made any decision, I can guarantee you would never make any new decisions.
  - kemiller2002 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

joejohnson 6y ago

It’s an insane society that would force someone to work through their recovery to an injury in the first place.

gowld 6y ago
Why? I broke my leg. Why can't I work with my hands?
- tor_anon_1 6y ago
  you really don't see how weak this counterpoint is? e.g. if you break your hands what exactly are you going to do with your legs?
  - viscanti 6y ago
    > if you break your hands what exactly are you going to do with your legs? Buy a two person bike and be the pedal power for a bike courier?
  - bloodorange 6y ago
    Wear a board on your front and back, with a message about worker protections, universal healthcare and walk around town spreading that message and hope it has an effect.
    - tor_anon_1 6y ago
      is this supposed to be facetious? because my point is exactly that there is nothing to do other than that and that to pretend that you can "elbow grease" and "work ethic" your way out of debilitating injury is just asinine.
      - bloodorange 6y ago
        Indeed, my post was in agreement with you.

piva00 6y ago

Gig companies shouldn't take the place of a functioning welfare in a rich society, I'm glad it helped you individually but it's symptom of a much larger issue that when patched that way just hides it away into the future...

treeman79 6y ago
In a welfare society I would still have to convince someone I couldn’t work. Get approval, etc. Healthcare industry is currently a mess. I have excellent coverage. Even still I couldn’t get anyone to take me seriously. Only when organ failure started up in earnest did doctors realize I wasn’t making it up.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SN76477 6y ago

I did doordash Grubhub Ubereats etc for about a year while I had no income. It was a lot of hours, barely paid the bills(Single income, with child household), did madness on my vehicle. It was good because it was all I had but I wouldn't want to go back to that.