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I pretty much only get delivery if I have some sort of promo code emailed to me. Otherwise I can’t really justify spending $25 to get a burrito delivered. Amaz

by xoxoy 6y ago

I pretty much only get delivery if I have some sort of promo code emailed to me. Otherwise I can’t really justify spending $25 to get a burrito delivered. Amazing that people have normalized paying for the insane number of fees plus tip to get one thing delivered.

bluedino 6y ago
It's often justified by, "I can keep working for another hour if I don't leave to get food."
- jermeh 6y ago
  And even more often "I can keep drinking another beer if I don't have to leave to get food."
  - aczerepinski 6y ago
    I can verify this justification exists.
    - jen20 6y ago
      I may or may not be able to verify that sometimes both justifications exist in parallel.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  How long does it take to go to a restaurant and pick up the food yourself? 10 minutes each way at most + 5 minute wait seems the maximum reasonable estimate to me
aliljet 6y ago
Precisely. I can't stomach the extremely high price of this service.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I feel like I'm living in a different world than this thread. DoorDash is practically giving away money with their service it's unreal. DashPass is $10/mo which which turns every delivery into ~$1+tip. The idea that I can buy 30min-1hour of a real human's time and labor for $3-4 to deliver me food is silly. My usual Indian take-out order is $16 if I spend 40 minutes for the round trip or $18 to get someone to deliver it to me.
  - 112012123 6y ago
    It definitely depends heavily on the market you're living in - some are very heavily subsidized, others are not. As a counterpoint, I recently had a $30 off promotion for uber eats. Ordered a couple of hamburgers, and the food tab came to $29 - which was zeroed out after the promotion. Delivery fee + service fee + tip meant I still ended up paying $18 for the service. I can't imagine I'd ever be a buyer at the full price.
  - strombofulous 6y ago
    Last time I used it there were two fees (I don't remember exactly what they were called but it was like a service charge and a delivery fee) and dashpass only covers one. Also in my experience (in Chicago) the food in the app costed $1-2 more per item (this wasn't listed anywhere, but if you compare the cost with what the resturant charged it was a lot more). Also there was at least one resturant that I visited that would give you less if you ordered through a delivery app to make up for the fact that they had to pay a fee. This is shady and shitty on the resturant's part and not really DD's fault (although frankly it's kind of predictable) but it was still a thing that happened when I used the app. I haven't used it for about a year though (because of the above shady practices) so they might have changed.
    - KyleJune 6y ago
      I had this same experience. Decided to try doordash because I had a $5 coupon in the mail + free delivery on the first order. I was suspicious of pricing so decided to check what the total would be for same order through restaurants site. All of the item prices were inflated on doordash. The $5 coupon + free delivery brought the total down to about the same price if I ordered directly from the restaurant. I don't like that they inflate prices and will not order directly from them because of it. They should be transparent about how much their service costs rather than hiding the true cost of their service in the item prices. I feel like it's likely their fault and not the restaurants since it seems like every restaurant has inflated doordash prices. My only theory is that they may be charging the business service fees in addition to the service/delivery fees they charge the customer. They do white label delivery for a fast food restaurant I order from. I've had it take 2 hours to deliver multiple times and even had one order get cancelled by doordash after they couldn't get anyone to pick up the order. Most of that delivery time is made up of it switching between multiple people who they expect to pick up my order. Once someone actually picks up my order it only takes about 5 minutes to get to me.
strombofulous 6y ago
I know right, it's crazy. $3 service fee + $1.99 delivery fee + the food costs $4 more + expected $5 tip + ... I feel like every time I tap the screen while using a delivery app I get charged a dollar
- bytematic 6y ago
  Interesting, I've never seen food markups. That might be specific to a restaurant/location/app
  - titanomachy 6y ago
    They're not always obvious! You need to compare the prices in the app to the restaurant's own takeout menu prices. My understanding is that the restaurants themselves add the markup to offset the fees that DoorDash charges them.
whymauri 6y ago
I also balked at it until my credit card gave me free delivery and only 5% fees. The final cost is cost of food + 1 dollar + tip to the driver (which I'm perfectly OK with!). This comes out to a real marginal difference of about 4-6$, which I don't really care about. Edit: people keep mentioning markups. I see those much more often on GrubHub (actually, every place is marked up on GrubHub except big chains), but don't see markups my regular set of local restaurants.
- DontGiveTwoFlux 6y ago
  I find that the prices of the food are also inflated over what the restaurant would charge.
- strombofulous 6y ago
  What card?
  - javiramos 6y ago
    Chase Sapphire Reserve: https://www.doordash.com/dashpass-v2/chase/sapphire-reserve/en-US https://www.doordash.com/dashpass-v2/chase/sapphire-reserve/...
    - aloknnikhil 6y ago
      https://media.chase.com/news/chase-partners-with-door-dash-to-deliver-new-benefit-for-freedom-sapphire-slate-cardmembers https://media.chase.com/news/chase-partners-with-door-dash-t... Seems like free DashPass is valid only for a year. > Complimentary DashPass Subscription for Chase Sapphire Reserve and Preferred cardmembers: Your Chase Sapphire account will receive one complimentary DashPass subscription from DoorDash for at least 12 months when the subscription is activated by 12/31/21. After the DashPass discounted period ends, you can choose to continue to be enrolled and charged the then current monthly DashPass rate They also have an offer for the Freedom and Slate cards (which have no annual fee) albeit free DashPass only for the first 3 months and a 50% discount for the next 9. So, still a good deal overall when compared to paying $9.99 every month. Thanks!
tolbish 6y ago
Do not underestimate the number of people who can't be bothered to (a) put on pants, (b) go outside, and/or (c) interact with others.
- refurb 6y ago
  Just as an aside, one of the best perks of work from home had been not wearing pants.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Based on income/wealth statistics, very few Americans are able to afford a $25 burrito outside of a special occasion. I wonder how big the market really is.
  - bluedino 6y ago
    The same people who have a $500 car lease, $900 smart phone, $65/month in subscription streaming services, blah blah blah The other thing to think about is people are probably just shifting money from eating out, to delivery. I mean you could go to Chili's and spend $50 for two people, or you could get Chipotle delivered for $30.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I would say the same thing about very few Americans being able to afford a $25 per person visit to Chili’s, outside of special occasions, but I understand what you’re saying.
      - karatinversion 6y ago
        I don’t think “very few” is the right way to look at this - the US is a very wealthy country. In 2019, something like 42 million Americans - not much below the population of Spain - had incomes over $100,000 (the 87th income percentile was $100,478). Almost all of those people are able to afford a $25pp visit to Chili’s outside of a special occasion!
cashewchoo 6y ago
I'm really in the same boat. Grocery delivery is a bit less insane (tip + fee = ~13% premium) because your average order size is bigger (at least for me - I usually do 200ish bucks every 1.5-2.0 weeks). I can stomach a 13% premium for delivery when I have 2-under-2 (years old) and I really don't want any of us to get covid for a variety of reasons (I can't afford (emotionally more than financially) to be down a caretaker and partner right now, can't afford (emotionally) to have either an infant or a toddler to have covid, etc etc). Doordash is really hard for me to justify, I only use it when given gift cards etc. It can literally double the price of a meal (a $20 mcdonalds order becomes $35-40). Even during covid I still generally do curbside because that feels like a very minimal risk. Post-covid, I'll probably use instacart/shipt maybe once or twice a year - I'm 100% sure there will be times where for whatever reason I just can't get out and the world will end if we run out of milk for the kids. But when there's not a pandemic on, taking the kids to the grocery store knocks out so many birds with one stone: * kids get to get used to the grocery store experience * we get groceries * my wife gets a break
- depingus 6y ago
  You might want to go back and re-calculate. Pre-covid, I did a comparison between in-store, Instacart, and Shipt. I did my normal groceries in store, then took the receipt and re-created it in Instacart and Shipt. It wasn't just the delivery fee + tip. Shipt and Instacart both increased the prices of each individual item; sometimes by a lot. IIRC the total was about 12% more BEFORE taxes, fees and tips. On a $150 shop, it was considerable. This was a while ago and things may have changed, but its worth looking into. You don't even need an in-store receipt; just download your store's weekly flyer and compare those prices with Shipt's and Instacart's. Also noteworthy: Shipt didn't respect any of my store's B1G1 offers. It didn't even appear in their system while shopping (Instacart did). I actually know a Shipt shopper that was getting free stuff all the time because of this. If you're strapped for time but still want to stay safe and save money, consider stores that have curb side service like Wal-Mart. You get in store prices with no extra fees and no-contact hand off.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    The one period I used grocery delivery quite a while back (I was on crutches and I could easily enough go to a grocery store but it was hard to do a full shopping) my big objection was that they'd be out of enough things or did substitutions I didn't want that it was hard to count on getting everything I needed to make a recipe. This was before meal kits so those weren't available as a substitute. Not sure about prices but I didn't really have a choice.
runako 6y ago
> to get one thing delivered Obligatory note that many people order more than one thing, and that some people eat things that are more expensive than burritos. The fees to order a single $7 burrito and 5 x $20 meals are similar in absolute $ terms. And of course, many of the popular services have effectively capped delivery fees at ~$10/mo so ordering once weekly brings the delivery fee down to ~$2.50.
graaben 6y ago
Not only the fees, but also just a completely substandard final product. Every time I have used one of these services (pretty much only when I get a promo code) it arrives late and cold. I would be furious if I spent an extra $5-10 on my meal for that to happen. On a side note, I've noticed that most restaurants around me will add $3-4 per dish when using Uber Eats vs. just calling them directly.
standardUser 6y ago
If you order with any regularity, the $10/month fee makes the overall fees you pay fairly minor. The difference in cost is primarily in the tip. "Amazing that people have normalized..." something that is ridiculously convenient and comes at a marginal additional cost? I'm no more amazed at that than wash-n-fold laundry or taxi service.
- xoxoy 6y ago
  the fees double the cost of the burrito. maybe the calculus is different if you live in more suburban areas but being in SF it is easy to walk to food places nearby.
  - bytematic 6y ago
    Never order just 1 thing if you are getting delivery. That will never make sense for delivery of any item. Same applies for grocery.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      What do you do with the extra food? Isn't the point of takeaway that you get hot fresh food without having to prep it? 'Stocking up' on takeaway seems counterproductive.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >wash-n-fold laundry or taxi service Which the vast bulk of people don't use either. I'm sure there's some market and I've seen market research that suggests grocery delivery is something that will hang around at higher levels post-COVID. (Though the same report also highlighted home cooking, not food delivery.) I admittedly don't have great food delivery options where I live. But getting most prepared food delivered isn't something I find very interesting at all.
  - standardUser 6y ago
    "Which the vast bulk of people don't use either." Who the hell said they did? These are long-standing and economically viable businesses - that was my only point.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
silentsea90 6y ago
Eh, I live in the bay area and spend $13-15 bucks tops on a burrito. Where is it $25?
Raphmedia 6y ago
The fees are not as apparent if you don't live alone. Imagine living with 4 roommates, all of whom want to order together. The fees and tips are divided among the 4 and become almost invisible.
- tmpz22 6y ago
  YMMV but my 3 housemates and I order a lot of delivery and have maybe coordinated 1 delivery to split fees despite having similar schedules, food tastes, and getting along pretty well. Food delivery is about getting the exact food you want when you want, and with a group of people that won't line up very often. Sometimes groups will order, but in my experience they do not.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  I would have thought people who need to have roommates would be extremely price sensitive.
macspoofing 6y ago
What's the difference between getting a burrito delivered and the decades-old delivery option for pizza? >Amazing that people have normalized paying for the insane number of fees plus tip to get one thing delivered. By the same token, you can ask why people eat out in restaurants given how much more expensive it is compared to cooking at home. I take your point about the expense though. If you habitually get delivery, it will add up to significant sums .. but then again, so does eating out.
- jedberg 6y ago
  The main difference is that the pizza place hires the delivery person, and all the carryout folks were subsidizing it. The price for carryout and delivery is the same, except I have to tip the driver, and I know the driver keeps the whole tip. There is no middleman sucking a bunch of money out of my community.
icedchai 6y ago
Yes. When you add in the fees + tip, it simply is not worth it. Then add the inconvenience of the driver being 40 minutes late. A lot of these drivers are so lazy, they won't even get out of their cars. I lost track of how many times I had to go out to the parking lot and track them down because they were in front of a different building. If I'm paying a delivery fee + tip, you better at least get it to my door. That has less than a 50% chance of happening with these services. These days, it's cheaper, faster, and safer to pick it up myself.

by xoxoy 6y ago

bluedino 6y ago

It's often justified by, "I can keep working for another hour if I don't leave to get food."

jermeh 6y ago
And even more often "I can keep drinking another beer if I don't have to leave to get food."
- aczerepinski 6y ago
  I can verify this justification exists.
  - jen20 6y ago
    I may or may not be able to verify that sometimes both justifications exist in parallel.
colinmhayes 6y ago
How long does it take to go to a restaurant and pick up the food yourself? 10 minutes each way at most + 5 minute wait seems the maximum reasonable estimate to me

aliljet 6y ago

Precisely. I can't stomach the extremely high price of this service.

Spivak 6y ago
I feel like I'm living in a different world than this thread. DoorDash is practically giving away money with their service it's unreal. DashPass is $10/mo which which turns every delivery into ~$1+tip. The idea that I can buy 30min-1hour of a real human's time and labor for $3-4 to deliver me food is silly. My usual Indian take-out order is $16 if I spend 40 minutes for the round trip or $18 to get someone to deliver it to me.
- 112012123 6y ago
  It definitely depends heavily on the market you're living in - some are very heavily subsidized, others are not. As a counterpoint, I recently had a $30 off promotion for uber eats. Ordered a couple of hamburgers, and the food tab came to $29 - which was zeroed out after the promotion. Delivery fee + service fee + tip meant I still ended up paying $18 for the service. I can't imagine I'd ever be a buyer at the full price.
- strombofulous 6y ago
  Last time I used it there were two fees (I don't remember exactly what they were called but it was like a service charge and a delivery fee) and dashpass only covers one. Also in my experience (in Chicago) the food in the app costed $1-2 more per item (this wasn't listed anywhere, but if you compare the cost with what the resturant charged it was a lot more). Also there was at least one resturant that I visited that would give you less if you ordered through a delivery app to make up for the fact that they had to pay a fee. This is shady and shitty on the resturant's part and not really DD's fault (although frankly it's kind of predictable) but it was still a thing that happened when I used the app. I haven't used it for about a year though (because of the above shady practices) so they might have changed.
  - KyleJune 6y ago
    I had this same experience. Decided to try doordash because I had a $5 coupon in the mail + free delivery on the first order. I was suspicious of pricing so decided to check what the total would be for same order through restaurants site. All of the item prices were inflated on doordash. The $5 coupon + free delivery brought the total down to about the same price if I ordered directly from the restaurant. I don't like that they inflate prices and will not order directly from them because of it. They should be transparent about how much their service costs rather than hiding the true cost of their service in the item prices. I feel like it's likely their fault and not the restaurants since it seems like every restaurant has inflated doordash prices. My only theory is that they may be charging the business service fees in addition to the service/delivery fees they charge the customer. They do white label delivery for a fast food restaurant I order from. I've had it take 2 hours to deliver multiple times and even had one order get cancelled by doordash after they couldn't get anyone to pick up the order. Most of that delivery time is made up of it switching between multiple people who they expect to pick up my order. Once someone actually picks up my order it only takes about 5 minutes to get to me.

strombofulous 6y ago

I know right, it's crazy. $3 service fee + $1.99 delivery fee + the food costs $4 more + expected $5 tip + ... I feel like every time I tap the screen while using a delivery app I get charged a dollar

bytematic 6y ago
Interesting, I've never seen food markups. That might be specific to a restaurant/location/app
- titanomachy 6y ago
  They're not always obvious! You need to compare the prices in the app to the restaurant's own takeout menu prices. My understanding is that the restaurants themselves add the markup to offset the fees that DoorDash charges them.

whymauri 6y ago

I also balked at it until my credit card gave me free delivery and only 5% fees. The final cost is cost of food + 1 dollar + tip to the driver (which I'm perfectly OK with!). This comes out to a real marginal difference of about 4-6$, which I don't really care about. Edit: people keep mentioning markups. I see those much more often on GrubHub (actually, every place is marked up on GrubHub except big chains), but don't see markups my regular set of local restaurants.

DontGiveTwoFlux 6y ago
I find that the prices of the food are also inflated over what the restaurant would charge.
strombofulous 6y ago
What card?
- javiramos 6y ago
  Chase Sapphire Reserve: https://www.doordash.com/dashpass-v2/chase/sapphire-reserve/en-US https://www.doordash.com/dashpass-v2/chase/sapphire-reserve/...
  - aloknnikhil 6y ago
    https://media.chase.com/news/chase-partners-with-door-dash-to-deliver-new-benefit-for-freedom-sapphire-slate-cardmembers https://media.chase.com/news/chase-partners-with-door-dash-t... Seems like free DashPass is valid only for a year. > Complimentary DashPass Subscription for Chase Sapphire Reserve and Preferred cardmembers: Your Chase Sapphire account will receive one complimentary DashPass subscription from DoorDash for at least 12 months when the subscription is activated by 12/31/21. After the DashPass discounted period ends, you can choose to continue to be enrolled and charged the then current monthly DashPass rate They also have an offer for the Freedom and Slate cards (which have no annual fee) albeit free DashPass only for the first 3 months and a 50% discount for the next 9. So, still a good deal overall when compared to paying $9.99 every month. Thanks!

tolbish 6y ago

Do not underestimate the number of people who can't be bothered to (a) put on pants, (b) go outside, and/or (c) interact with others.

refurb 6y ago
Just as an aside, one of the best perks of work from home had been not wearing pants.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
Based on income/wealth statistics, very few Americans are able to afford a $25 burrito outside of a special occasion. I wonder how big the market really is.
- bluedino 6y ago
  The same people who have a $500 car lease, $900 smart phone, $65/month in subscription streaming services, blah blah blah The other thing to think about is people are probably just shifting money from eating out, to delivery. I mean you could go to Chili's and spend $50 for two people, or you could get Chipotle delivered for $30.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I would say the same thing about very few Americans being able to afford a $25 per person visit to Chili’s, outside of special occasions, but I understand what you’re saying.
    - karatinversion 6y ago
      I don’t think “very few” is the right way to look at this - the US is a very wealthy country. In 2019, something like 42 million Americans - not much below the population of Spain - had incomes over $100,000 (the 87th income percentile was $100,478). Almost all of those people are able to afford a $25pp visit to Chili’s outside of a special occasion!

cashewchoo 6y ago

I'm really in the same boat. Grocery delivery is a bit less insane (tip + fee = ~13% premium) because your average order size is bigger (at least for me - I usually do 200ish bucks every 1.5-2.0 weeks). I can stomach a 13% premium for delivery when I have 2-under-2 (years old) and I really don't want any of us to get covid for a variety of reasons (I can't afford (emotionally more than financially) to be down a caretaker and partner right now, can't afford (emotionally) to have either an infant or a toddler to have covid, etc etc). Doordash is really hard for me to justify, I only use it when given gift cards etc. It can literally double the price of a meal (a $20 mcdonalds order becomes $35-40). Even during covid I still generally do curbside because that feels like a very minimal risk. Post-covid, I'll probably use instacart/shipt maybe once or twice a year - I'm 100% sure there will be times where for whatever reason I just can't get out and the world will end if we run out of milk for the kids. But when there's not a pandemic on, taking the kids to the grocery store knocks out so many birds with one stone: * kids get to get used to the grocery store experience * we get groceries * my wife gets a break

depingus 6y ago
You might want to go back and re-calculate. Pre-covid, I did a comparison between in-store, Instacart, and Shipt. I did my normal groceries in store, then took the receipt and re-created it in Instacart and Shipt. It wasn't just the delivery fee + tip. Shipt and Instacart both increased the prices of each individual item; sometimes by a lot. IIRC the total was about 12% more BEFORE taxes, fees and tips. On a $150 shop, it was considerable. This was a while ago and things may have changed, but its worth looking into. You don't even need an in-store receipt; just download your store's weekly flyer and compare those prices with Shipt's and Instacart's. Also noteworthy: Shipt didn't respect any of my store's B1G1 offers. It didn't even appear in their system while shopping (Instacart did). I actually know a Shipt shopper that was getting free stuff all the time because of this. If you're strapped for time but still want to stay safe and save money, consider stores that have curb side service like Wal-Mart. You get in store prices with no extra fees and no-contact hand off.
- ghaff 6y ago
  The one period I used grocery delivery quite a while back (I was on crutches and I could easily enough go to a grocery store but it was hard to do a full shopping) my big objection was that they'd be out of enough things or did substitutions I didn't want that it was hard to count on getting everything I needed to make a recipe. This was before meal kits so those weren't available as a substitute. Not sure about prices but I didn't really have a choice.

runako 6y ago

> to get one thing delivered Obligatory note that many people order more than one thing, and that some people eat things that are more expensive than burritos. The fees to order a single $7 burrito and 5 x $20 meals are similar in absolute $ terms. And of course, many of the popular services have effectively capped delivery fees at ~$10/mo so ordering once weekly brings the delivery fee down to ~$2.50.

graaben 6y ago

Not only the fees, but also just a completely substandard final product. Every time I have used one of these services (pretty much only when I get a promo code) it arrives late and cold. I would be furious if I spent an extra $5-10 on my meal for that to happen. On a side note, I've noticed that most restaurants around me will add $3-4 per dish when using Uber Eats vs. just calling them directly.

standardUser 6y ago

If you order with any regularity, the $10/month fee makes the overall fees you pay fairly minor. The difference in cost is primarily in the tip. "Amazing that people have normalized..." something that is ridiculously convenient and comes at a marginal additional cost? I'm no more amazed at that than wash-n-fold laundry or taxi service.

xoxoy 6y ago
the fees double the cost of the burrito. maybe the calculus is different if you live in more suburban areas but being in SF it is easy to walk to food places nearby.
- bytematic 6y ago
  Never order just 1 thing if you are getting delivery. That will never make sense for delivery of any item. Same applies for grocery.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    What do you do with the extra food? Isn't the point of takeaway that you get hot fresh food without having to prep it? 'Stocking up' on takeaway seems counterproductive.
ghaff 6y ago
>wash-n-fold laundry or taxi service Which the vast bulk of people don't use either. I'm sure there's some market and I've seen market research that suggests grocery delivery is something that will hang around at higher levels post-COVID. (Though the same report also highlighted home cooking, not food delivery.) I admittedly don't have great food delivery options where I live. But getting most prepared food delivered isn't something I find very interesting at all.
- standardUser 6y ago
  "Which the vast bulk of people don't use either." Who the hell said they did? These are long-standing and economically viable businesses - that was my only point.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

silentsea90 6y ago

Eh, I live in the bay area and spend $13-15 bucks tops on a burrito. Where is it $25?

Raphmedia 6y ago

The fees are not as apparent if you don't live alone. Imagine living with 4 roommates, all of whom want to order together. The fees and tips are divided among the 4 and become almost invisible.

tmpz22 6y ago
YMMV but my 3 housemates and I order a lot of delivery and have maybe coordinated 1 delivery to split fees despite having similar schedules, food tastes, and getting along pretty well. Food delivery is about getting the exact food you want when you want, and with a group of people that won't line up very often. Sometimes groups will order, but in my experience they do not.
chrisseaton 6y ago
I would have thought people who need to have roommates would be extremely price sensitive.

macspoofing 6y ago

What's the difference between getting a burrito delivered and the decades-old delivery option for pizza? >Amazing that people have normalized paying for the insane number of fees plus tip to get one thing delivered. By the same token, you can ask why people eat out in restaurants given how much more expensive it is compared to cooking at home. I take your point about the expense though. If you habitually get delivery, it will add up to significant sums .. but then again, so does eating out.

jedberg 6y ago
The main difference is that the pizza place hires the delivery person, and all the carryout folks were subsidizing it. The price for carryout and delivery is the same, except I have to tip the driver, and I know the driver keeps the whole tip. There is no middleman sucking a bunch of money out of my community.

icedchai 6y ago

Yes. When you add in the fees + tip, it simply is not worth it. Then add the inconvenience of the driver being 40 minutes late. A lot of these drivers are so lazy, they won't even get out of their cars. I lost track of how many times I had to go out to the parking lot and track them down because they were in front of a different building. If I'm paying a delivery fee + tip, you better at least get it to my door. That has less than a 50% chance of happening with these services. These days, it's cheaper, faster, and safer to pick it up myself.