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"bans the sale of new gas cars and trucks by 2035" I still do not see how they can role out charging infrastructure in just 15 years. Not everyone lives in a h

"bans the sale of new gas cars and trucks by 2035" I still do not see how they can role out charging infrastructure in just 15 years. Not everyone lives in a house. I was in San Luis Obispo last December and the backup on I5 forced cars off the road. The wait at the Tesla charging station was 4-6 hours. Getting back to the article. I'm liking the car. I would look into getting one if I owned a place where I could charge it.

bradlys 6y ago
It’ll get repealed. All bans like that either have large cutouts or easy ways to get out of them. It’s posturing.
qppo 6y ago
It's a lot easier to roll out charging stations than gas stations, and it's already fairly well established in the urban areas where people don't live in homes. I think it's entirely realistic to have more charging ports in California than gas nozzles by 2030 if not 2025.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Why gas stations vs any other commerical location? Chargers are more popular and useful in parking spots.
epistasis 6y ago
Electricity is everywhere. Deployment of charging infrastructure is going to be trivial, especially in parking lots with existing light poles. That's not to say there won't be growing pains, but we will deploy. Over the course of 2015 I went from always being able to find a charger to not being able to ever find one, and then since 2017 I haven't had a single problem because more chargers were added. For a couple years, I lived in an apartment where the landlord was a dock and wouldn't let me install a charger at the car port, and I had to charge at public chargers. It worked out, even though it wasn't ideal. And when the laws finally reign in the rapacious landlords, we will have plenty of charging at apartments too.
- bradlys 6y ago
  > It worked out, even though it wasn't ideal. And when the laws finally reign in the rapacious landlords, we will have plenty of charging at apartments too. That's cool if you live in apartment buildings with designated parking. I don't. I live in a place with only street parking (don't give me the "charge at work" thing - street parking there too). As evident by how many cars are on the street at any given time, you can bet that that population is very sizeable.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Chargers can be installed on the street, much like parking meters.
    - bradlys 6y ago
      > Chargers can be installed on the street, much like parking meters. Yes, because they're going to install chargers where parking meters never existed. As if.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        They're installed for entirely different reasons, so I'm not sure why you'd use the nonexistence of one to argue they wouldn't install the other.
        bradlys 6y ago
        > They're installed for entirely different reasons, so I'm not sure why you'd use the nonexistence of one to argue they wouldn't install the other. Do you expect chargers to be all over the sidewalks in residential neighborhoods? That's where a lot of people park and I don't see it happening. It'd be such an eyesore.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        In dense areas where people have to park on the street? Yeah, it would make sense. And compared to the huge cars all over, I expect it'll look fine.
strawberrypuree 6y ago
Well, luckily when you ban the sale of new things, it doesn't instantly take off the planet every used version of that thing. The average age of cars on the road is 11 years, meaning we have at least a quarter century from now to get our act together. The world looked a lot different in 1995, a quarter century before today.
ajmurmann 6y ago
I don't understand how we can afford to wait this long. If we keep emitting like this we are doomed, if we aren't already. To have a chance, we need to ban gasoline cars much sooner.
russellbeattie 6y ago
What I find amazing is one way or another, over the next 50 years, all the gas stations you see now are going to be gone or transformed, but mostly gone. Have you ever noticed how many gas stations there are? Years from now they'll look at the 150 years from the Model T's introduction to the final gas station closing and just shake their head at us. Horses were around for millennia. ICE vehicles are going to seen as a barbaric blip that our forebears will be amazed at. Like leaching or witchcraft. Or life before smartphones.
shajznnckfke 6y ago
I wonder if the deployment of EV charging infrastructure is how society starts recognizing the costs of free parking.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Not really: most people will not be charging on the streets, they will charge at home. Unless you street charger is the same price as charging at home, but then it is free parking. Note that electric is often cheaper at night. Most free parking spots are empty at night: the cars are at home. Thus same price charging on the street as at home should be looked at as subsidized parking! Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to have some on-street charging. However people won't normally use it. Most will charge at home for the cheaper rates. What is left is those who can't make it home on the current charge. This is a small minority of all who park even in an all electric car world.
bsder 6y ago
> I still do not see how they can role out charging infrastructure in just 15 years. Not everyone lives in a house. We rolled out gas stations faster than that. Gas stations went from something you had to worry about on long trips in 1975 to every corner convenience store by 1990. And charging stations have none of the downside of gas stations (toxic leakage, theft, licensing, etc.). You can install charging stations at very small shops without worry. I'm personally surprised that Target and Lowe's haven't rolled out charging stations in their parking lots. Once that happens, it's pretty much game over as everybody will have to roll out parking lot charging or lose business.
- bluGill 6y ago
  A few grocery stores around me have done it (Iowa!). Those spots are typically empty - or if close to the door filled by a gas car (ignoring the electric car only sign). Most people with an electric car don't need to top off their car when they are shopping - they just charge at home. The only people who need to charge someplace other than home are on a long trip and that is less than 5% of all driving. This puts a ceiling on demand for chargers. Even ignoring the above, state laws often give the local utility has a legal monopoly on selling electricity. Stores that have a charger are giving away the power to whoever uses the charger. Until the law allows some sort of profit from having a charger it doesn't make sense to have one.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  > I'm personally surprised that Target and Lowe's haven't rolled out charging stations in their parking lots Where people have EVs, they do.
ainiriand 6y ago
I always found this argument quite funny. Do you have a gas station at home or what? A single charge of an electric car can last you many days in the city. You go to a charging station once a week, have some time for a coffee or some reading, you come back and it is charged. Gas cars have to go to the gas station also, sometimes once a week too, and people do not complain that much about it. I think it has to do with how used we are to it that electric charging we tend to think it should be at home.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  A gas fillup is 5min not 200+m. Sitting for 3 hrs while your car charges not at home is not a practical weekly routine. But that's fine because people will charge at work.
thimkerbell 6y ago
What keeps a freeway-adjacent homeowner from installing a charger and renting the use of it to travellers?

bradlys 6y ago

It’ll get repealed. All bans like that either have large cutouts or easy ways to get out of them. It’s posturing.

qppo 6y ago

It's a lot easier to roll out charging stations than gas stations, and it's already fairly well established in the urban areas where people don't live in homes. I think it's entirely realistic to have more charging ports in California than gas nozzles by 2030 if not 2025.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
Why gas stations vs any other commerical location? Chargers are more popular and useful in parking spots.

epistasis 6y ago

Electricity is everywhere. Deployment of charging infrastructure is going to be trivial, especially in parking lots with existing light poles. That's not to say there won't be growing pains, but we will deploy. Over the course of 2015 I went from always being able to find a charger to not being able to ever find one, and then since 2017 I haven't had a single problem because more chargers were added. For a couple years, I lived in an apartment where the landlord was a dock and wouldn't let me install a charger at the car port, and I had to charge at public chargers. It worked out, even though it wasn't ideal. And when the laws finally reign in the rapacious landlords, we will have plenty of charging at apartments too.

bradlys 6y ago
> It worked out, even though it wasn't ideal. And when the laws finally reign in the rapacious landlords, we will have plenty of charging at apartments too. That's cool if you live in apartment buildings with designated parking. I don't. I live in a place with only street parking (don't give me the "charge at work" thing - street parking there too). As evident by how many cars are on the street at any given time, you can bet that that population is very sizeable.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Chargers can be installed on the street, much like parking meters.
  - bradlys 6y ago
    > Chargers can be installed on the street, much like parking meters. Yes, because they're going to install chargers where parking meters never existed. As if.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      They're installed for entirely different reasons, so I'm not sure why you'd use the nonexistence of one to argue they wouldn't install the other.
      - bradlys 6y ago
        > They're installed for entirely different reasons, so I'm not sure why you'd use the nonexistence of one to argue they wouldn't install the other. Do you expect chargers to be all over the sidewalks in residential neighborhoods? That's where a lot of people park and I don't see it happening. It'd be such an eyesore.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        In dense areas where people have to park on the street? Yeah, it would make sense. And compared to the huge cars all over, I expect it'll look fine.

strawberrypuree 6y ago

Well, luckily when you ban the sale of new things, it doesn't instantly take off the planet every used version of that thing. The average age of cars on the road is 11 years, meaning we have at least a quarter century from now to get our act together. The world looked a lot different in 1995, a quarter century before today.

ajmurmann 6y ago

I don't understand how we can afford to wait this long. If we keep emitting like this we are doomed, if we aren't already. To have a chance, we need to ban gasoline cars much sooner.

russellbeattie 6y ago

What I find amazing is one way or another, over the next 50 years, all the gas stations you see now are going to be gone or transformed, but mostly gone. Have you ever noticed how many gas stations there are? Years from now they'll look at the 150 years from the Model T's introduction to the final gas station closing and just shake their head at us. Horses were around for millennia. ICE vehicles are going to seen as a barbaric blip that our forebears will be amazed at. Like leaching or witchcraft. Or life before smartphones.

shajznnckfke 6y ago

I wonder if the deployment of EV charging infrastructure is how society starts recognizing the costs of free parking.

bluGill 6y ago
Not really: most people will not be charging on the streets, they will charge at home. Unless you street charger is the same price as charging at home, but then it is free parking. Note that electric is often cheaper at night. Most free parking spots are empty at night: the cars are at home. Thus same price charging on the street as at home should be looked at as subsidized parking! Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to have some on-street charging. However people won't normally use it. Most will charge at home for the cheaper rates. What is left is those who can't make it home on the current charge. This is a small minority of all who park even in an all electric car world.

bsder 6y ago

> I still do not see how they can role out charging infrastructure in just 15 years. Not everyone lives in a house. We rolled out gas stations faster than that. Gas stations went from something you had to worry about on long trips in 1975 to every corner convenience store by 1990. And charging stations have none of the downside of gas stations (toxic leakage, theft, licensing, etc.). You can install charging stations at very small shops without worry. I'm personally surprised that Target and Lowe's haven't rolled out charging stations in their parking lots. Once that happens, it's pretty much game over as everybody will have to roll out parking lot charging or lose business.

bluGill 6y ago
A few grocery stores around me have done it (Iowa!). Those spots are typically empty - or if close to the door filled by a gas car (ignoring the electric car only sign). Most people with an electric car don't need to top off their car when they are shopping - they just charge at home. The only people who need to charge someplace other than home are on a long trip and that is less than 5% of all driving. This puts a ceiling on demand for chargers. Even ignoring the above, state laws often give the local utility has a legal monopoly on selling electricity. Stores that have a charger are giving away the power to whoever uses the charger. Until the law allows some sort of profit from having a charger it doesn't make sense to have one.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
> I'm personally surprised that Target and Lowe's haven't rolled out charging stations in their parking lots Where people have EVs, they do.

ainiriand 6y ago

I always found this argument quite funny. Do you have a gas station at home or what? A single charge of an electric car can last you many days in the city. You go to a charging station once a week, have some time for a coffee or some reading, you come back and it is charged. Gas cars have to go to the gas station also, sometimes once a week too, and people do not complain that much about it. I think it has to do with how used we are to it that electric charging we tend to think it should be at home.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
A gas fillup is 5min not 200+m. Sitting for 3 hrs while your car charges not at home is not a practical weekly routine. But that's fine because people will charge at work.

thimkerbell 6y ago

What keeps a freeway-adjacent homeowner from installing a charger and renting the use of it to travellers?