6 ms·

“Other countries have social safety nets. The U.S. has women.”

50 points by zt 6y ago

grecy 6y ago
A few years ago I read a study about taxes and public services by country. The conclusion ending up being: "If Americans knew what Europeans get for their tax dollars, they (Americans) would riot in the streets". My google-fu fails me, and I've been unable to find it since. Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?
- 0_____0 6y ago
  >A few years ago, an American acquaintance of mine who lives in Sweden told me that, quite by chance, he and his Swedish wife were in New York City and ended up sharing a limousine to the theatre district with a southern US senator and his wife. This senator, a conservative, anti-tax Democrat, asked my acquaintance about Sweden and swaggeringly commented about "all those taxes the Swedes pay". To which this American replied, "The problem with Americans and their taxes is that we get nothing for them." He then went on to tell the senator about the comprehensive level of services and benefits that Swedes receive. >"If Americans knew what Swedes receive for their taxes, we would probably riot," he told the senator. The rest of the ride to the theatre district was unsurprisingly quiet.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    It's true that tax-paying Americans don't get much from the government, at least directly (our 3%-4% of GDP spent on military has maintained global peace for 75 years, and VA/Medicare is awesome if you qualify.) But you have to be factual when quoting Sweden as a paradise. Sweden already had one welfare reset a few decades ago, and 90% (or more) of the recent migrants are on welfare, rapidly draining the Swedish welfare programs. (The reason migrants target Sweden (and Canada) is because of the juicy welfare programs, which lets them have 4 wives, all subsidized by the state.) > This senator, a conservative, anti-tax Democrat That's a new one. lol.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I think this is a play on an earlier quote about American supermarkets. > Yeltsin, then 58, "roamed the aisles of Randall's nodding his head in amazement," wrote Asin. He told his fellow Russians in his entourage that if their people, who often must wait in line for most goods, saw the conditions of U.S. supermarkets, "there would be a revolution." https://www.nhregister.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.nhregister.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article...
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Googling that sentence leads me to this article that contains that quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-low-tax-america-why-americans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myt... which makes references to several sources
  - grecy 6y ago
    Thankyou, that must be the one. But not a study as I had remembered.
- CountSessine 6y ago
  If that were true, doesn’t that, in a way, justify America’s libertarian-leanings? If there’s something about the American civil service (be it defined benefit pensions, or whatever) that makes it a bad value outlier compared to European governments, does it make any sense expanding government services before we figure out what makes US government such a bad value?
- tim-- 6y ago
  The closest I could find was this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/apr/15/tax-day-us-europe https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/ap...
- O_H_E 6y ago
  googling the sentence you have in qoutes brought up this: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-low-tax-america-why-americans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myt...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
woofie11 6y ago
I hate the sexism of these stories. More women are taking more responsibility, but plenty of dads are too. The result of articles like this one is that Dads becoming primary caretakers during learn-from-home face a triple-whammy. It discourages exactly the kind of behavior it pretends to want to see. Dads are disadvantaged in the same way Moms are, but then they're screwed over at work more (since expectations are set by articles like this one that it's the mom's duty). They're screwed over a third time in custody battles, when thanks to stereotypes like these, they will invariably get the short stick on custody. Best a Dad primary caretaker can hope for, unless the Mom is a drunk psychotic, is 50/50. Typical is Mom gets custody. It's perfectly possible to write an article like this in neutral terms "primary caretaker," and point out the majority are women, and there's a disparate gender impact. It's an article about primary caretakers. By implying by correlation that it's 100% women, it does a ton of harm. As a footnote, that problem is pretty common. We don't have domestic violence laws. We have a "violence against women act." I'm not even sure how that's constitutional, but the result is that law enforcement ignores domestic violence against men. That's not to speak of the whole LGBTQ community, whom the author thinks it's okay to f- over by assuming a family is a husband and a wife.
- xwdv 6y ago
  I come to the same conclusions you do about this, but I always find it hard to discuss these sort of details without getting my observations written off as toxic what-aboutism. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if your comment began to accumulate downvotes very quickly, so here’s my upvote if it means anything. I have a female friend who would back me into a corner and force me to answer for all the wrongs men have done against women throughout history if I tried to raise the points you made with her. Not sure what to do.
  - s5300 6y ago
    I would start by no longer being their friend. Who needs such toxicity in their life?
    - xwdv 6y ago
rayiner 6y ago
Do we not have a social safety net? What were the $600/week checks? Did we stop paying for Medicaid or ACA? Did Trump cancel SNAP?
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  > Do we not have a social safety net? No. > What were the $600/week checks? Temporary. > Did we stop paying for Medicaid or ACA? Yes and even with them healthcare is inaccessible. > Did Trump cancel SNAP? Proposed double-digit % cuts every year. America is in moral and economic decline. If you don't have kids, enjoy the harvest while the fields go fallow. If you do have kids, get the hell out.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    A proposed budget cut doesn't really matter when congress chooses to ignore it
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      ...whatever you need to feel ok about a super rich government that manages to run a 15+% GDP deficit while failing to provide healthcare (or even annual physicals), adequate shelter, or even fucking food to its population. The US deficit is literally big enough to feed everyone in the country 10x over, but we have millions of kids going to sleep hungry. We're accumulating more in debt every year than we need to feed the kids born that year for the rest of their lives. Our debt is unsustainable and our country is drugged up on a perverse cocktail of conspiracies, Christianity, cowboy mythology. Glad to be one foot out. Good luck and god bless.
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        I don't think we're talking about the same thing lol

50 points by zt 6y ago

A few years ago I read a study about taxes and public services by country. The conclusion ending up being: "If Americans knew what Europeans get for their tax dollars, they (Americans) would riot in the streets". My google-fu fails me, and I've been unable to find it since. Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?

0_____0 6y ago
>A few years ago, an American acquaintance of mine who lives in Sweden told me that, quite by chance, he and his Swedish wife were in New York City and ended up sharing a limousine to the theatre district with a southern US senator and his wife. This senator, a conservative, anti-tax Democrat, asked my acquaintance about Sweden and swaggeringly commented about "all those taxes the Swedes pay". To which this American replied, "The problem with Americans and their taxes is that we get nothing for them." He then went on to tell the senator about the comprehensive level of services and benefits that Swedes receive. >"If Americans knew what Swedes receive for their taxes, we would probably riot," he told the senator. The rest of the ride to the theatre district was unsurprisingly quiet.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  It's true that tax-paying Americans don't get much from the government, at least directly (our 3%-4% of GDP spent on military has maintained global peace for 75 years, and VA/Medicare is awesome if you qualify.) But you have to be factual when quoting Sweden as a paradise. Sweden already had one welfare reset a few decades ago, and 90% (or more) of the recent migrants are on welfare, rapidly draining the Swedish welfare programs. (The reason migrants target Sweden (and Canada) is because of the juicy welfare programs, which lets them have 4 wives, all subsidized by the state.) > This senator, a conservative, anti-tax Democrat That's a new one. lol.
Spivak 6y ago
I think this is a play on an earlier quote about American supermarkets. > Yeltsin, then 58, "roamed the aisles of Randall's nodding his head in amazement," wrote Asin. He told his fellow Russians in his entourage that if their people, who often must wait in line for most goods, saw the conditions of U.S. supermarkets, "there would be a revolution." https://www.nhregister.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.nhregister.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article...
Barrin92 6y ago
Googling that sentence leads me to this article that contains that quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-low-tax-america-why-americans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myt... which makes references to several sources
- grecy 6y ago
  Thankyou, that must be the one. But not a study as I had remembered.
CountSessine 6y ago
If that were true, doesn’t that, in a way, justify America’s libertarian-leanings? If there’s something about the American civil service (be it defined benefit pensions, or whatever) that makes it a bad value outlier compared to European governments, does it make any sense expanding government services before we figure out what makes US government such a bad value?
tim-- 6y ago
The closest I could find was this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/apr/15/tax-day-us-europe https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/ap...
O_H_E 6y ago
googling the sentence you have in qoutes brought up this: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-low-tax-america-why-americans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myt...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

woofie11 6y ago

I hate the sexism of these stories. More women are taking more responsibility, but plenty of dads are too. The result of articles like this one is that Dads becoming primary caretakers during learn-from-home face a triple-whammy. It discourages exactly the kind of behavior it pretends to want to see. Dads are disadvantaged in the same way Moms are, but then they're screwed over at work more (since expectations are set by articles like this one that it's the mom's duty). They're screwed over a third time in custody battles, when thanks to stereotypes like these, they will invariably get the short stick on custody. Best a Dad primary caretaker can hope for, unless the Mom is a drunk psychotic, is 50/50. Typical is Mom gets custody. It's perfectly possible to write an article like this in neutral terms "primary caretaker," and point out the majority are women, and there's a disparate gender impact. It's an article about primary caretakers. By implying by correlation that it's 100% women, it does a ton of harm. As a footnote, that problem is pretty common. We don't have domestic violence laws. We have a "violence against women act." I'm not even sure how that's constitutional, but the result is that law enforcement ignores domestic violence against men. That's not to speak of the whole LGBTQ community, whom the author thinks it's okay to f- over by assuming a family is a husband and a wife.

xwdv 6y ago
I come to the same conclusions you do about this, but I always find it hard to discuss these sort of details without getting my observations written off as toxic what-aboutism. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if your comment began to accumulate downvotes very quickly, so here’s my upvote if it means anything. I have a female friend who would back me into a corner and force me to answer for all the wrongs men have done against women throughout history if I tried to raise the points you made with her. Not sure what to do.
- s5300 6y ago
  I would start by no longer being their friend. Who needs such toxicity in their life?
  - xwdv 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago

Do we not have a social safety net? What were the $600/week checks? Did we stop paying for Medicaid or ACA? Did Trump cancel SNAP?

throwawaygh 6y ago
> Do we not have a social safety net? No. > What were the $600/week checks? Temporary. > Did we stop paying for Medicaid or ACA? Yes and even with them healthcare is inaccessible. > Did Trump cancel SNAP? Proposed double-digit % cuts every year. America is in moral and economic decline. If you don't have kids, enjoy the harvest while the fields go fallow. If you do have kids, get the hell out.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  A proposed budget cut doesn't really matter when congress chooses to ignore it
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    ...whatever you need to feel ok about a super rich government that manages to run a 15+% GDP deficit while failing to provide healthcare (or even annual physicals), adequate shelter, or even fucking food to its population. The US deficit is literally big enough to feed everyone in the country 10x over, but we have millions of kids going to sleep hungry. We're accumulating more in debt every year than we need to feed the kids born that year for the rest of their lives. Our debt is unsustainable and our country is drugged up on a perverse cocktail of conspiracies, Christianity, cowboy mythology. Glad to be one foot out. Good luck and god bless.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      I don't think we're talking about the same thing lol