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The post discusses only first order effects. In case of nuclear war most people will die not from kinetic shock or radiation, but from famine and deceases cause

The post discusses only first order effects. In case of nuclear war most people will die not from kinetic shock or radiation, but from famine and deceases caused by collapse of supply chain and medical infrastructures, and from unavoidable violence during the fight for scarce remaining resources.

devy 6y ago
Exactly! The intangible disruptions of a human society will indirectly cause eventual death due to the nuclear war. Think about it, just the COVID-19 lockdown of a few weeks can cause economy collapsed, people out of jobs, can't paid rent, utilities. A nuclear war will immediate cut off or contaminate essential human necessities, like food, water, shelters, electricity etc., so even without getting harmed by kinetic force, radiation, climate alteration, people still cannot survive long term.
- EthanHeilman 6y ago
  I always found that more frightening than total extinction. I can't imagine all humans blinking out in a few hours. I can imagine having no food or money, trying to work dangerous odd jobs here and there and starving to death along with 30% of my town during a winter famine a few years later.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Think of life outside the Western world for a bit. This was the case for most of colonised Asia, and is still is a thing for some places in Africa.
lopmotr 6y ago
Those effects won't cause extinction though because they'll diminish as the population shrinks so it'll reach some equilibrium. This is about extinction, not just lots of people dying. Nuclear winter wouldn't get less harmful the fewer people are around.
- onion2k 6y ago
  Very few people would choose to have children and raise them in a post-nuclear war environment, even if the radiation didn't make viable babies impossible. It's possible that the population would die out simply because it wouldn't be replaced quickly enough.
  - Haga 6y ago
    Very view people would have contraceptives and lots of people would have themselves for sale. Not mentioned but important newer warheads make one missile count for ten old. Hypersonic missiles subvert early warning systems, so the overall danger has risen.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Some people don't "choose to have children." They feel like fucking so they do, and children happen afterwards. I wouldn't expect that to change after a nuclear war, especially in a world without contraceptives. That aside, there really needs to be more understanding of the difference between species extinction and cultural extinction. Humans could survive for hundreds of millennia in a devolved state. They wouldn't be particularly human by our standards, but they'd have the same DNA. But our culture would be gone. All the accumulated knowledge would be wiped out, and it's very possible nothing like it would ever return. DNA is fairly robust. Culture, knowledge, and rationality are extremely fragile. We're not doing an outstandingly job of preserving them even without a nuclear war, and I can't imagine a nuclear war would make the situation any better.
    - OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
      Just continue this thread of contrarianism, I doubt we could eradicate human knowledge from the planet if we tried at this point. It is encoded in our minds, our books and our silicon chips. We may lose the know-how / capacity to produce certain things, such as we did with Damascus steel or roman concrete, but we are an endlessly resourceful species. I place my faith in our ability to adapt and come up with new solutions as required.
    - 6y ago

devy 6y ago

Exactly! The intangible disruptions of a human society will indirectly cause eventual death due to the nuclear war. Think about it, just the COVID-19 lockdown of a few weeks can cause economy collapsed, people out of jobs, can't paid rent, utilities. A nuclear war will immediate cut off or contaminate essential human necessities, like food, water, shelters, electricity etc., so even without getting harmed by kinetic force, radiation, climate alteration, people still cannot survive long term.

EthanHeilman 6y ago
I always found that more frightening than total extinction. I can't imagine all humans blinking out in a few hours. I can imagine having no food or money, trying to work dangerous odd jobs here and there and starving to death along with 30% of my town during a winter famine a few years later.
- baybal2 6y ago
  Think of life outside the Western world for a bit. This was the case for most of colonised Asia, and is still is a thing for some places in Africa.

lopmotr 6y ago

Those effects won't cause extinction though because they'll diminish as the population shrinks so it'll reach some equilibrium. This is about extinction, not just lots of people dying. Nuclear winter wouldn't get less harmful the fewer people are around.

onion2k 6y ago
Very few people would choose to have children and raise them in a post-nuclear war environment, even if the radiation didn't make viable babies impossible. It's possible that the population would die out simply because it wouldn't be replaced quickly enough.
- Haga 6y ago
  Very view people would have contraceptives and lots of people would have themselves for sale. Not mentioned but important newer warheads make one missile count for ten old. Hypersonic missiles subvert early warning systems, so the overall danger has risen.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Some people don't "choose to have children." They feel like fucking so they do, and children happen afterwards. I wouldn't expect that to change after a nuclear war, especially in a world without contraceptives. That aside, there really needs to be more understanding of the difference between species extinction and cultural extinction. Humans could survive for hundreds of millennia in a devolved state. They wouldn't be particularly human by our standards, but they'd have the same DNA. But our culture would be gone. All the accumulated knowledge would be wiped out, and it's very possible nothing like it would ever return. DNA is fairly robust. Culture, knowledge, and rationality are extremely fragile. We're not doing an outstandingly job of preserving them even without a nuclear war, and I can't imagine a nuclear war would make the situation any better.
  - OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
    Just continue this thread of contrarianism, I doubt we could eradicate human knowledge from the planet if we tried at this point. It is encoded in our minds, our books and our silicon chips. We may lose the know-how / capacity to produce certain things, such as we did with Damascus steel or roman concrete, but we are an endlessly resourceful species. I place my faith in our ability to adapt and come up with new solutions as required.
  - 6y ago