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People chose to use Apple because it seems like a benevolent dictatorship. And frankly, a benevolent dictatorship is basically the best government you can have

People chose to use Apple because it seems like a benevolent dictatorship. And frankly, a benevolent dictatorship is basically the best government you can have, as long as you're part of the "in-group" who doesn't push boundaries, doesn't cause trouble, and supports the supreme ruler, Kim jon... cough* Apple. --- The problem is that no matter how good the dictatorship might be today, it will eventually bite you. You will either develop a need that isn't addressed, or they will change the rules so you are no longer able to satisfy an existing need. We're seeing this now with Google - Their motto was literally "don't be evil" for a long time. And during that golden period their users loved them. But as Google has shifted from "don't be evil" to "Make lots of money" people are starting to shift away. Apple is still in the golden phase, but I'm not really convinced they're going to be there much longer.

itp 6y ago
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil > "Don't be evil" is a phrase used in Google's corporate code of conduct, which it also formerly preceded as a motto. > Following Google's corporate restructuring under the conglomerate Alphabet Inc. in October 2015, Alphabet took "Do the right thing" as its motto, also forming the opening of its corporate code of conduct.[1][2][3][4][5] The original motto was retained in Google's code of conduct, now a subsidiary of Alphabet. In April 2018, the motto was removed from the code of conduct's preface and retained in its last sentence.[6] I know saying Google removed Don't Be Evil is something of a trope, but the truth is a little more complicated. And, of course, the presence or absence of this phrase has no necessary bearing on the degree to which they are perceived as evil or not!
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Right, but it's funny how these things tend to correlate. For example, the US Department of War became the US Department of Defense in 1949, arguably around the time when its primary business switched from Defense to War.
  - nmlnn 6y ago
    Not uncoincidentally this was the year 1984 was published, and Newspeak is the official language of Oceania, so..
    - canibal57 6y ago
      "Hilariously", thirty years later, the company that would go on to put a camera in everyone's living room and pocket ran this commercial: https://vimeo.com/312710573 https://vimeo.com/312710573
    - elmo2you 6y ago
      spot on .. I'm afraid
- jl2718 6y ago
  Evil is frequently caught masquerading as “do the right thing”. “Don’t be evil” is nearly the opposite guidance.
pmontra 6y ago
> Apple is still in the golden phase, but I'm not really convinced they're going to be there much longer. The honeymoon is already over. A post like yours would have got several downvotes up to less than two years ago. I noticed that honest critics to Apple are tolerated now, since at least about one year ago.
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  I actually agree with you (and as someone who's been complaining about Apple for a looong time, I have the posts with the downvotes to show you're probably right), but I don't think HN is representative of the general populace. I also still consider Apple's PR game to be top notch. Which is why so many folks are talking about loving the Apple app store in the thread about the recent Epic case that also popped up today. Although I'll note it's interesting that originally those threads seemed about evenly divided on the topic, and currently the pro-apple, pro-dictatorship voices seem to be getting mostly downvoted. Regardless - I'd strongly recommend everyone out there to consider free and open software, on devices that you own (and you don't own a device if you don't have root access). Open source just keeps getting better - We happily re-implement the ideas and products generated by these companies, but we care about you - not the bottom line -because we are you.
  - awill 6y ago
    I remember there was a bug on the App Store that cause some issue on certain games. I posted on the thread "Why not buy this game on Steam instead. It costs the same, doesn't have this issue, and you benefit from the game working on Windows/Mac/Linux at no extra charge. You also get proper trophy support, cross platform multiplayer etc.. I got a bunch of 'Why on earth would I do that. I love the app store and will only ever have Macs.'
    - gantrion 6y ago
      Steam has its own set of issues where they control what you get to play, and when. I feel like I've "bought" a ton of games through Steam, and now that my kids are a bit older, they want to play some of them. Unfortunately they can't play different games at the same time - even with Steam's family sharing. When one person plays a game, it locks the whole game library. GOG all the way.
danuker 6y ago
> benevolent dictatorship Have you seen Louis Rossmann's videos on Apple hardware repair?
babypuncher 6y ago
I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much, their users might not feel so good about paying the premium prices Apple demands for its products. Making users upset is a direct threat to their business model.
- damnencryption 6y ago
  > Making users upset is a direct threat to their business model You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS. While you may think customers still have a choice, the reality is that they are locked in through their school, work or relationships (can't use imessage to talk to your spouse?). Apple makes it difficult to use third-party hardware and software it competes with so you will buy more and more Apple over time. People are prone to sunk cost fallacy and consistency. It's sales manual 101. I really can't recommend reading a good sales manual enough.
  - babypuncher 6y ago
    > You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS. This doesn't really make much sense to me. Unless you are going with a niche privacy-oriented fork of AOSP, any non-iOS smartphone you move to will still be controlled by Google. And if you do move to one of those forks, you are essentially migrating to an entirely new ecosystem anyways. It's no easier to leave Google's Android ecosystem than it is to leave iOS or macOS.
    - m4rtink 6y ago
ineedasername 6y ago
In defense of Google, they really like having a lot of money. Let P = "Don't be evil" and Q = "make lots of money". Q was nothing new. They always wanted Q. But Google made a fundamental breakthrough in business logic, discovering that P -> ¬Q. It should be noted that ¬P -> Q is not automatically implied. Plenty of companies are ¬P ∧ ¬Q. Perhaps they are not ¬P enough? Perhaps they are too much ¬P? But very few manage to be purely P ∧ Q.
phs318u 6y ago
Speaking as an ex-Google user and an ex-Apple customer (still tied to Apple Music and iCloud for family phones), I'd compare Google to Russia - not particularly benevolent, a bit chaotic/random, citizens tend to shrug and accept their lot. Apple is more like Singapore, slick, seemingly benevolent, citizens honestly question why the rest of the world isn't run the same way. EDIT: I'd add another way in which Google is like Russia and Apple like Singapore. Everyone kinda knows that Russia's leaders are a bit/a lot evil. There's still a debate about whether Singapore's leaders are evil.
- sjwright 6y ago
  That's a perfect analogy.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  I like that. I think it makes Linux some sort of United States: users like the principles, but almost all use one of the 50 major implementations, which tend to have small differences. When defending any perceived shortcoming, they will point to a different implementation without the particular flaw, or argue that the feature is not only unnecessary but undesirable. Many outsiders are uncomfortable with the unwavering commitment these users have for the principles. Others often talk about moving to the USA, or how they plan to, but few make the effort to do so. [The last paragraph convinced me the analogy was better with the USA than the EU.]
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    More like their state fixed particular issue, some move a lot between states, some settled on their first place. Some live all life in a hotel, some build their own houses. It looks scary for outsiders — how to choose state? Building own house requires so much energy and time, why would anyone do this? Just rent an apartment, maybe change wallpapers and door, bring appliances. Yes, sometimes owner moves switches, adds cameras, puts advertisement, forbids all but own groceries where he takes 30% cut, but apart from that life is good.
  - mbgerring 6y ago
    Linux is also like the United States in that you are in some sense free, but everything just barely works, sometimes things don't work at all, and there is no hope of many well-documented problems ever being fixed. If you have a problem, you are "free" to fix it yourself, on your own, without support.
Tepix 6y ago
Think about Apple's policies regarding IAPs. You're not allowed to tell your customers in your app that they can do the purchases on your webserver etc. The benevolent days of Apple ended when they removed the expansion slots from their computers, if not earlier.

itp 6y ago

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil > "Don't be evil" is a phrase used in Google's corporate code of conduct, which it also formerly preceded as a motto. > Following Google's corporate restructuring under the conglomerate Alphabet Inc. in October 2015, Alphabet took "Do the right thing" as its motto, also forming the opening of its corporate code of conduct.[1][2][3][4][5] The original motto was retained in Google's code of conduct, now a subsidiary of Alphabet. In April 2018, the motto was removed from the code of conduct's preface and retained in its last sentence.[6] I know saying Google removed Don't Be Evil is something of a trope, but the truth is a little more complicated. And, of course, the presence or absence of this phrase has no necessary bearing on the degree to which they are perceived as evil or not!

jjoonathan 6y ago
Right, but it's funny how these things tend to correlate. For example, the US Department of War became the US Department of Defense in 1949, arguably around the time when its primary business switched from Defense to War.
- nmlnn 6y ago
  Not uncoincidentally this was the year 1984 was published, and Newspeak is the official language of Oceania, so..
  - canibal57 6y ago
    "Hilariously", thirty years later, the company that would go on to put a camera in everyone's living room and pocket ran this commercial: https://vimeo.com/312710573 https://vimeo.com/312710573
  - elmo2you 6y ago
    spot on .. I'm afraid
jl2718 6y ago
Evil is frequently caught masquerading as “do the right thing”. “Don’t be evil” is nearly the opposite guidance.

pmontra 6y ago

> Apple is still in the golden phase, but I'm not really convinced they're going to be there much longer. The honeymoon is already over. A post like yours would have got several downvotes up to less than two years ago. I noticed that honest critics to Apple are tolerated now, since at least about one year ago.

horsawlarway 6y ago
I actually agree with you (and as someone who's been complaining about Apple for a looong time, I have the posts with the downvotes to show you're probably right), but I don't think HN is representative of the general populace. I also still consider Apple's PR game to be top notch. Which is why so many folks are talking about loving the Apple app store in the thread about the recent Epic case that also popped up today. Although I'll note it's interesting that originally those threads seemed about evenly divided on the topic, and currently the pro-apple, pro-dictatorship voices seem to be getting mostly downvoted. Regardless - I'd strongly recommend everyone out there to consider free and open software, on devices that you own (and you don't own a device if you don't have root access). Open source just keeps getting better - We happily re-implement the ideas and products generated by these companies, but we care about you - not the bottom line -because we are you.
- awill 6y ago
  I remember there was a bug on the App Store that cause some issue on certain games. I posted on the thread "Why not buy this game on Steam instead. It costs the same, doesn't have this issue, and you benefit from the game working on Windows/Mac/Linux at no extra charge. You also get proper trophy support, cross platform multiplayer etc.. I got a bunch of 'Why on earth would I do that. I love the app store and will only ever have Macs.'
  - gantrion 6y ago
    Steam has its own set of issues where they control what you get to play, and when. I feel like I've "bought" a ton of games through Steam, and now that my kids are a bit older, they want to play some of them. Unfortunately they can't play different games at the same time - even with Steam's family sharing. When one person plays a game, it locks the whole game library. GOG all the way.

danuker 6y ago

> benevolent dictatorship Have you seen Louis Rossmann's videos on Apple hardware repair?

babypuncher 6y ago

I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much, their users might not feel so good about paying the premium prices Apple demands for its products. Making users upset is a direct threat to their business model.

damnencryption 6y ago
> Making users upset is a direct threat to their business model You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS. While you may think customers still have a choice, the reality is that they are locked in through their school, work or relationships (can't use imessage to talk to your spouse?). Apple makes it difficult to use third-party hardware and software it competes with so you will buy more and more Apple over time. People are prone to sunk cost fallacy and consistency. It's sales manual 101. I really can't recommend reading a good sales manual enough.
- babypuncher 6y ago
  > You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS. This doesn't really make much sense to me. Unless you are going with a niche privacy-oriented fork of AOSP, any non-iOS smartphone you move to will still be controlled by Google. And if you do move to one of those forks, you are essentially migrating to an entirely new ecosystem anyways. It's no easier to leave Google's Android ecosystem than it is to leave iOS or macOS.
  - m4rtink 6y ago

ineedasername 6y ago

In defense of Google, they really like having a lot of money. Let P = "Don't be evil" and Q = "make lots of money". Q was nothing new. They always wanted Q. But Google made a fundamental breakthrough in business logic, discovering that P -> ¬Q. It should be noted that ¬P -> Q is not automatically implied. Plenty of companies are ¬P ∧ ¬Q. Perhaps they are not ¬P enough? Perhaps they are too much ¬P? But very few manage to be purely P ∧ Q.

phs318u 6y ago

Speaking as an ex-Google user and an ex-Apple customer (still tied to Apple Music and iCloud for family phones), I'd compare Google to Russia - not particularly benevolent, a bit chaotic/random, citizens tend to shrug and accept their lot. Apple is more like Singapore, slick, seemingly benevolent, citizens honestly question why the rest of the world isn't run the same way. EDIT: I'd add another way in which Google is like Russia and Apple like Singapore. Everyone kinda knows that Russia's leaders are a bit/a lot evil. There's still a debate about whether Singapore's leaders are evil.

sjwright 6y ago
That's a perfect analogy.
Symbiote 6y ago
I like that. I think it makes Linux some sort of United States: users like the principles, but almost all use one of the 50 major implementations, which tend to have small differences. When defending any perceived shortcoming, they will point to a different implementation without the particular flaw, or argue that the feature is not only unnecessary but undesirable. Many outsiders are uncomfortable with the unwavering commitment these users have for the principles. Others often talk about moving to the USA, or how they plan to, but few make the effort to do so. [The last paragraph convinced me the analogy was better with the USA than the EU.]
- sergeykish 6y ago
  More like their state fixed particular issue, some move a lot between states, some settled on their first place. Some live all life in a hotel, some build their own houses. It looks scary for outsiders — how to choose state? Building own house requires so much energy and time, why would anyone do this? Just rent an apartment, maybe change wallpapers and door, bring appliances. Yes, sometimes owner moves switches, adds cameras, puts advertisement, forbids all but own groceries where he takes 30% cut, but apart from that life is good.
- mbgerring 6y ago
  Linux is also like the United States in that you are in some sense free, but everything just barely works, sometimes things don't work at all, and there is no hope of many well-documented problems ever being fixed. If you have a problem, you are "free" to fix it yourself, on your own, without support.

Tepix 6y ago

Think about Apple's policies regarding IAPs. You're not allowed to tell your customers in your app that they can do the purchases on your webserver etc. The benevolent days of Apple ended when they removed the expansion slots from their computers, if not earlier.