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I think Docker for Mac should just use x86 emulation for the time being -- apparently the new Apple chips don't support virtualization? x86 emulation gives acc

I think Docker for Mac should just use x86 emulation for the time being -- apparently the new Apple chips don't support virtualization? x86 emulation gives access to most available Docker images anyways -- and the performance of the new CPUs would seems to indicate that emulation may not be so terrible, at least for the short term.

wmf 6y ago
The M1 does support virtualization. Parallels is already working. I don't know how long it will take to get HyperKit working on Apple Silicon. QEMU would allow running x86 images on Apple Silicon but I don't know if the performance would be acceptable. You can't use Rosetta 2 with Linux no matter how much you might like to.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  It's kind of really bad because it doesn't get to use Rosetta's kernel support for enabling strict memory ordering.
gumby 6y ago
EDIT: I don't know about the hardware but their license change, as mentioned by saurian below, didn't add support for this as I had thought and had written in my original comment.
- saurik 6y ago
  I thought MacStadium just released a blog post--which was on Hacker News--going into detail on the exact opposite: that now Apple has made it very clear that not only can you not provide shared hosting (as you must lease the device to the user in its entirety) but you can't even lease it in less than 24 hour increments (which to me is a kind of ridiculous overreach on what it means to own something; imagine if Toyota sold a car and said "the infotainment unit runs a bunch of software and the license on it prevents ride sharing or per-hour rentals").
  - gumby 6y ago
    I read that post much more carefully and indeed, I had misunderstood this. I'll edit my comment so yours survives.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > a blog post--which was on Hacker News-- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25064841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25064841 This post with 8 votes? Did it come up anywhere that got actual discussion?
ogre_codes 6y ago
The M1 supports virtualization. The comment in question was talking about the older DTK CPU. A full VM with x86 emulation is not supported though, and from the sounds of it will never be.
- jsight 6y ago
  Never seems like a long time. Why would it be impossible to implement x86 emulation with virtualization?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Because that's not virtualization, it's emulation. And running code your processor isn't designed for is slow.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > Never seems like a long time. Fair point. On an infinite time scale...
  - phire 6y ago
    Apple's x86 emulator only implements userspace. Apple would need to implement all the supervisor mode parts of x86, which massively increases complexity. It's a notably different product. And it would even be virtualiztion, it's not exposing the real host hardware. No real x86 cpu exists to be exposed. It would just be an emulator pretending to be virtualiztion.

wmf 6y ago

The M1 does support virtualization. Parallels is already working. I don't know how long it will take to get HyperKit working on Apple Silicon. QEMU would allow running x86 images on Apple Silicon but I don't know if the performance would be acceptable. You can't use Rosetta 2 with Linux no matter how much you might like to.

saagarjha 6y ago
It's kind of really bad because it doesn't get to use Rosetta's kernel support for enabling strict memory ordering.

gumby 6y ago

EDIT: I don't know about the hardware but their license change, as mentioned by saurian below, didn't add support for this as I had thought and had written in my original comment.

saurik 6y ago
I thought MacStadium just released a blog post--which was on Hacker News--going into detail on the exact opposite: that now Apple has made it very clear that not only can you not provide shared hosting (as you must lease the device to the user in its entirety) but you can't even lease it in less than 24 hour increments (which to me is a kind of ridiculous overreach on what it means to own something; imagine if Toyota sold a car and said "the infotainment unit runs a bunch of software and the license on it prevents ride sharing or per-hour rentals").
- gumby 6y ago
  I read that post much more carefully and indeed, I had misunderstood this. I'll edit my comment so yours survives.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > a blog post--which was on Hacker News-- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25064841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25064841 This post with 8 votes? Did it come up anywhere that got actual discussion?

ogre_codes 6y ago

The M1 supports virtualization. The comment in question was talking about the older DTK CPU. A full VM with x86 emulation is not supported though, and from the sounds of it will never be.

jsight 6y ago
Never seems like a long time. Why would it be impossible to implement x86 emulation with virtualization?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Because that's not virtualization, it's emulation. And running code your processor isn't designed for is slow.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Never seems like a long time. Fair point. On an infinite time scale...
- phire 6y ago
  Apple's x86 emulator only implements userspace. Apple would need to implement all the supervisor mode parts of x86, which massively increases complexity. It's a notably different product. And it would even be virtualiztion, it's not exposing the real host hardware. No real x86 cpu exists to be exposed. It would just be an emulator pretending to be virtualiztion.