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For some reason I've run into this type of dependency chain issue many times in JS, but have never run into it in Python despite using both languages pretty hea

by cactus2093 6y ago

For some reason I've run into this type of dependency chain issue many times in JS, but have never run into it in Python despite using both languages pretty heavily. Maybe because the JS ethos is to change things so quickly, if you're not making a major breaking change to your package's API every year or two then you're getting left behind (only kind of joking). Also probably because the standard library is so small in JS (or at least it used to be, and may projects want to be compatible with at least some older browsers) so the average number of dependencies that a typical library has is probably much higher than in Python. I really don't get the fuss about the global dependency management though, maybe I would change my mind if Python shipedp a great implementation of it. But I feel like the problem is already solvable in multiple ways with containers, VMs, or virtualenvs and I don't think yet another abstraction to separate environments would add much value to my day to day workflow building python apps.

divbzero 6y ago
This is my experience too. I’ve never actually encountered a global dependency conflict with Python pip though in theory it’s possible. But I have encountered the same version conflict problem in dependency chains that exists with Node npm. And yet, I hear so many more complaints about Python pip and I really don’t understand the disconnect. Perhaps dislike of pip is actually triggered by usability issues? And then people look for other reasons to explain their dislike?
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  It happens with the data science/scientific programming stack a lot, at least twice in the last month I've pulled in a small dependency that changed my numpy version which broke everything.
  - divbzero 6y ago
    Thanks. I suppose it could be related to the rate of change in the ecosystem. Python’s data science / scientific programming stack definitely changes faster than Python’s web stack which is currently my primary use case. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, resolving this dependency issue would require a change in the Python language itself.
JAlexoid 6y ago
Maybe you just don't rely on packages that have different update cycles. If you're only working with the standard library, boto3, twisted and redis - you're unlikely to have issues. You get into big issues, when you get to more obscure libraries... or libraries that are C bindings.

divbzero 6y ago

This is my experience too. I’ve never actually encountered a global dependency conflict with Python pip though in theory it’s possible. But I have encountered the same version conflict problem in dependency chains that exists with Node npm. And yet, I hear so many more complaints about Python pip and I really don’t understand the disconnect. Perhaps dislike of pip is actually triggered by usability issues? And then people look for other reasons to explain their dislike?

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
It happens with the data science/scientific programming stack a lot, at least twice in the last month I've pulled in a small dependency that changed my numpy version which broke everything.
- divbzero 6y ago
  Thanks. I suppose it could be related to the rate of change in the ecosystem. Python’s data science / scientific programming stack definitely changes faster than Python’s web stack which is currently my primary use case. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, resolving this dependency issue would require a change in the Python language itself.

JAlexoid 6y ago

Maybe you just don't rely on packages that have different update cycles. If you're only working with the standard library, boto3, twisted and redis - you're unlikely to have issues. You get into big issues, when you get to more obscure libraries... or libraries that are C bindings.