4 ms·

Personal experience. Got hired into a company that did everything possible to avoid hiring straight white men. Everything was completely dominated by not offe

Personal experience. Got hired into a company that did everything possible to avoid hiring straight white men. Everything was completely dominated by not offending anyone over anything. Unless you were the aforementioned group. Turns out there simply isn’t a lot of the right race/gender/sex. I’m sure that’ll be different as time progresses, but for now there is clearly some catching up to do. So it was all jr developers. A couple of which truly cared about technology, and I see good things in their future. The rest were the most arrogant sexist bigots imaginable. Most days were filled with hatred. Full rant fest about how evil “my kind” were. But it wasn’t personal as I was clearly one of the good ones... So yeah, n=1 personal experience. But crude that echo chamber was scary.

osipov 6y ago
If it was just n=1, then we wouldn't have this brilliant social commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZy4QXLKHlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZy4QXLKHlI
- treeman79 6y ago
  Wow. That was exactly my experience. I tried so hard to stay out of it and just code. That really upset several people.
fraktl 6y ago
So what you're saying is that.. I am responsible for my happiness, and that other people are not to blame for the choices I made in regards to my behavior and life, especially straight white men? Wow, that's a hard cookie to swallow. (for the ones who read this far, what I wrote is sarcastic).
throwawaympfsin 6y ago
That's one of the reasons I left tech and went to work for an investment bank. At least here no one pretends to be in it to "make the world a better place" or whatever agenda tech companies are selling nowadays. YMMV
- dkersten 6y ago
  Ugh, that's one thing I really hate about much of tech: supposedly everyone is in it to make the world a better place, somehow, by actually making it worse through advertisement and destroying privacy and getting people addicted to social media.
  - smbullet 6y ago
    It's because they only want the world to be a better place for themselves.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      I’ve come to see it as people naturally tend to an US vs Them attitude. Sports is a fairly safe outlet for this sort of thing. Religion is a bad one to have that attitude. Holy wars, etc. Race is dangerous, as history is full of exterminations.
      - benjaminjosephw 6y ago
        The idea that "race is dangerous" is dangerous.
        smbullet 6y ago
        They're saying it's dangerous to have an Us vs Them attitude when it comes to race.
        mpfundstein 6y ago
        Treeman is surely a he ... and a singular person... gosh this rape of language is so ugly
        treeman79 6y ago
        I assure you we are a natural born Pine-tree.
enraged_camel 6y ago
It's definitely very interesting to see white men's reactions now that they are starting to experience discrimination themselves. Your comment is actually very telling. Instead of realizing and admitting that racism and sexism are bad and hurtful, you instead referred to the perpetrators as "arrogant sexist bigots" and talked about how scary the "echo chamber" was. edit: In fact, it is remarkable that this "it is actually the minorities who are the real sexists and racists!" comment is the top comment on HN. Absolutely shameful.
- treeman79 6y ago
  Ah, that’s another common attitude. I’m white so I HAVE to admit to my racism. People don’t like it being called out on it. Had some girl come up to me and demand I apologize for being a a man, and how that’s kept her out of tech. I have many daughters and work hard to show them programming and other concepts. So yeah, she was flat being sexist. As a child I saw pictures of a crowd shouting at a a black girl for going to school. To this day always remember the look of pure hatred on their faces. I’ve always kept that in mind in dealing with others. I see that a same hatred in all kinds of people. Some of it has had grown socially acceptable now. Why need to strive to a point where none that maters. We treat each other with respect.
  - enraged_camel 6y ago
    >> Ah, that’s another common attitude. I’m white so I HAVE to admit to my racism. No, but you should admit your privilege, which is a result of collective racism and sexism. This doesn't mean you yourself are racist or sexist. It does mean you benefited from those things. This doesn't mean it is your fault. It does mean you should at least try to empathize with people who are angry about it. The fact of the matter is this: regardless of what kind of life you have lived as a white man, things would have been worse if you had lived that life as a minority and/or a woman. >> Why need to strive to a point where none that maters. We treat each other with respect. There can be no respect without reconciliation. You cannot simply pretend that white people, white men in particular, didn't achieve their economic and social advantages and statuses (which include highly paid tech jobs!) due to immense collective privilege. Pointing this out does not make one a bigot. Complaining about it does not mean the complainer is full of hatred. You should not apologize for being a man or a white person, but you should at least try to empathize with people who did not manage to get where you are simply because of their race or gender.
hello_1234 6y ago
That your post is on the top shows the "white male" bias in hackernews audience. People are up-voting your personal anecdote and your "I am a white male victim" post more than the discussions about the actual results on the original article.
- osipov 6y ago
  The post reveals the hackernews bias against discrimination in all forms, regardless of whether it is targeted at minorities or white males. Meritocracy baby!
  - treeman79 6y ago
    All hatred needs to stops.
  - hello_1234 6y ago
    I totally agree. But shouldn't we trust the data more than one person's anecdote? The original article clearly did not find any discrimination against white male. Rather than discussing that result, we are here commenting about one person's anecdote.
    - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
      >The original article clearly did not find any discrimination against white male. How do you interpret women getting 10% more callbacks if not as discrimination against males?
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  The demographic working in CS nearly reflects demographics that study CS or other relevant degrees. Ever asked yourself if it may be your bias that is the root of the accusations for discrimination? Because with the evidence available you can make that case.
cvhashim 6y ago
How is this tripe upvoted to the top ?
equaminity 6y ago
Thank you for sharing this experience. It makes it clear that if bias against a member of the most privileged group in our society can create this kind of trauma, what must it be doing to the minority groups that have been suffering under the same pain for many, many centuries. I applaud your vulnerability.
- treeman79 6y ago
  I don’t ever want to be viewed as a victim. I’ve had some major tragedies. I move on and keep going. With new scars. But those are proof I’m human. And well not fully flammable. Blaming others is a destructive pattern.
nailer 6y ago
> Got hired into a company that did everything possible to avoid hiring straight white men. Same here. Like you mentioned, anecdotes are not data. But likewise - I was pressured to specifically hire a female / non-white developer for my team.
thrwAway456 6y ago
Personal experience. Worked in a group that did everything possible to avoid hiring, acknowledging, and rewarding women's contributions. Everything was completely dominated by one-upmanship and crude jokes. Unless you were in the in-group, you were screwed. I don't doubt your annecdote. I guess all I can say is, welcome to the club? Being part of the "out group" in a toxic workplace sucks. I've had men come up to me and say, "Wow now I get it." Because in their entire lives they had only worked on male dominated teams, and working on a toxic non hetero non male dominated team made them really uncomfortable, they were fine working on toxic hetero male dominated teams. All the norms had changed and they didn't know what to do. But until they experienced it themselves didn't get "what the big deal" is. I stay in tech because I don't want to be forced to take a lower salary because of cultural attitudes that women being around "ruins the atmosphere". But yes if I had a pile of FU money, I would bail in a second, not because I'm busy taking care of children or whatever excuse, but because people are insecure, emotionally immature and create a great deal of toxicity.
- treeman79 6y ago
  Had a brief stint in a place like that. Bunch of good ole boys club. Yes all young white males Got out of their as fast as possible. It’s disguising to see how they treated woman. I’m trying to raise my daughters to never put up with that.
  - thrwAway456 6y ago
    Thank you.

osipov 6y ago

If it was just n=1, then we wouldn't have this brilliant social commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZy4QXLKHlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZy4QXLKHlI

treeman79 6y ago
Wow. That was exactly my experience. I tried so hard to stay out of it and just code. That really upset several people.

fraktl 6y ago

So what you're saying is that.. I am responsible for my happiness, and that other people are not to blame for the choices I made in regards to my behavior and life, especially straight white men? Wow, that's a hard cookie to swallow. (for the ones who read this far, what I wrote is sarcastic).

throwawaympfsin 6y ago

That's one of the reasons I left tech and went to work for an investment bank. At least here no one pretends to be in it to "make the world a better place" or whatever agenda tech companies are selling nowadays. YMMV

dkersten 6y ago
Ugh, that's one thing I really hate about much of tech: supposedly everyone is in it to make the world a better place, somehow, by actually making it worse through advertisement and destroying privacy and getting people addicted to social media.
- smbullet 6y ago
  It's because they only want the world to be a better place for themselves.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    I’ve come to see it as people naturally tend to an US vs Them attitude. Sports is a fairly safe outlet for this sort of thing. Religion is a bad one to have that attitude. Holy wars, etc. Race is dangerous, as history is full of exterminations.
    - benjaminjosephw 6y ago
      The idea that "race is dangerous" is dangerous.
      - smbullet 6y ago
        They're saying it's dangerous to have an Us vs Them attitude when it comes to race.
        mpfundstein 6y ago
        Treeman is surely a he ... and a singular person... gosh this rape of language is so ugly
        treeman79 6y ago
        I assure you we are a natural born Pine-tree.

enraged_camel 6y ago

It's definitely very interesting to see white men's reactions now that they are starting to experience discrimination themselves. Your comment is actually very telling. Instead of realizing and admitting that racism and sexism are bad and hurtful, you instead referred to the perpetrators as "arrogant sexist bigots" and talked about how scary the "echo chamber" was. edit: In fact, it is remarkable that this "it is actually the minorities who are the real sexists and racists!" comment is the top comment on HN. Absolutely shameful.

treeman79 6y ago
Ah, that’s another common attitude. I’m white so I HAVE to admit to my racism. People don’t like it being called out on it. Had some girl come up to me and demand I apologize for being a a man, and how that’s kept her out of tech. I have many daughters and work hard to show them programming and other concepts. So yeah, she was flat being sexist. As a child I saw pictures of a crowd shouting at a a black girl for going to school. To this day always remember the look of pure hatred on their faces. I’ve always kept that in mind in dealing with others. I see that a same hatred in all kinds of people. Some of it has had grown socially acceptable now. Why need to strive to a point where none that maters. We treat each other with respect.
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  >> Ah, that’s another common attitude. I’m white so I HAVE to admit to my racism. No, but you should admit your privilege, which is a result of collective racism and sexism. This doesn't mean you yourself are racist or sexist. It does mean you benefited from those things. This doesn't mean it is your fault. It does mean you should at least try to empathize with people who are angry about it. The fact of the matter is this: regardless of what kind of life you have lived as a white man, things would have been worse if you had lived that life as a minority and/or a woman. >> Why need to strive to a point where none that maters. We treat each other with respect. There can be no respect without reconciliation. You cannot simply pretend that white people, white men in particular, didn't achieve their economic and social advantages and statuses (which include highly paid tech jobs!) due to immense collective privilege. Pointing this out does not make one a bigot. Complaining about it does not mean the complainer is full of hatred. You should not apologize for being a man or a white person, but you should at least try to empathize with people who did not manage to get where you are simply because of their race or gender.

hello_1234 6y ago

That your post is on the top shows the "white male" bias in hackernews audience. People are up-voting your personal anecdote and your "I am a white male victim" post more than the discussions about the actual results on the original article.

osipov 6y ago
The post reveals the hackernews bias against discrimination in all forms, regardless of whether it is targeted at minorities or white males. Meritocracy baby!
- treeman79 6y ago
  All hatred needs to stops.
- hello_1234 6y ago
  I totally agree. But shouldn't we trust the data more than one person's anecdote? The original article clearly did not find any discrimination against white male. Rather than discussing that result, we are here commenting about one person's anecdote.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    >The original article clearly did not find any discrimination against white male. How do you interpret women getting 10% more callbacks if not as discrimination against males?
raxxorrax 6y ago
The demographic working in CS nearly reflects demographics that study CS or other relevant degrees. Ever asked yourself if it may be your bias that is the root of the accusations for discrimination? Because with the evidence available you can make that case.

cvhashim 6y ago

How is this tripe upvoted to the top ?

equaminity 6y ago

Thank you for sharing this experience. It makes it clear that if bias against a member of the most privileged group in our society can create this kind of trauma, what must it be doing to the minority groups that have been suffering under the same pain for many, many centuries. I applaud your vulnerability.

treeman79 6y ago
I don’t ever want to be viewed as a victim. I’ve had some major tragedies. I move on and keep going. With new scars. But those are proof I’m human. And well not fully flammable. Blaming others is a destructive pattern.

nailer 6y ago

> Got hired into a company that did everything possible to avoid hiring straight white men. Same here. Like you mentioned, anecdotes are not data. But likewise - I was pressured to specifically hire a female / non-white developer for my team.

thrwAway456 6y ago

Personal experience. Worked in a group that did everything possible to avoid hiring, acknowledging, and rewarding women's contributions. Everything was completely dominated by one-upmanship and crude jokes. Unless you were in the in-group, you were screwed. I don't doubt your annecdote. I guess all I can say is, welcome to the club? Being part of the "out group" in a toxic workplace sucks. I've had men come up to me and say, "Wow now I get it." Because in their entire lives they had only worked on male dominated teams, and working on a toxic non hetero non male dominated team made them really uncomfortable, they were fine working on toxic hetero male dominated teams. All the norms had changed and they didn't know what to do. But until they experienced it themselves didn't get "what the big deal" is. I stay in tech because I don't want to be forced to take a lower salary because of cultural attitudes that women being around "ruins the atmosphere". But yes if I had a pile of FU money, I would bail in a second, not because I'm busy taking care of children or whatever excuse, but because people are insecure, emotionally immature and create a great deal of toxicity.

treeman79 6y ago
Had a brief stint in a place like that. Bunch of good ole boys club. Yes all young white males Got out of their as fast as possible. It’s disguising to see how they treated woman. I’m trying to raise my daughters to never put up with that.
- thrwAway456 6y ago
  Thank you.