5 ms·

It is not so astonishing that there is any performance improvement when it is 15x slower than it should be in the first place.

gameswithgo 6y ago
it wasn’t even 15x slower than C i feel like a lot of people’s ideas about c# performance are from before .net framework 4 which was years and years ago
- RobCrusoe 6y ago
  A lot of people’s opinions about dotnet are not informed by anything, they see Microsoft in the name and decide to drop snide remarks about how bad it must be, as you can see already from this thread.
  - laichzeit0 6y ago
    It's not as if that reputation came about out of thin air. Developers have memory and are not quick to forgive or forget.
    - RobCrusoe 6y ago
      I think that claims about a thing should be based on observations concerning that thing, and not based on a folk memory acquired through other people’s attitudes and biases.
    - oaiey 6y ago
      .NET Core is 6 years old now. That is 3 ice ages ago in our business. This memory should be defragmented and then updated ;)
  - fortran77 6y ago
    That's because they get rewarded on Hacker News for saying that -- with Points!
renanoliveira0 6y ago
https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=ph&test=composite https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=...
- rattray 6y ago
  Summarizing what I think was the goal of posting this link: This benchmark ranking shows ASP.NET Core coming in 6th place, compared to Spring at 34th, Express at 76th, and Django/Rails near the bottom. I can't speak to the usefulness of the benchmark used.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    techempower is the go to web framework benchmark suite. it is of course gamed heavily. c# does as well as any garbage collected framework, half as fast as the best rust/c++ ones
  - codeulike 6y ago
    I didn't recognise hardly any of the frameworks in that list so here's my little translation of the top 6 for people like me: 1: Drogon (c++ Framework) 2: Actix (Rust Framework) 3: may-minihttp (Rust Framework) 4: Lithium (C++ Framework) 5: Jooby.x (Java/Kotlin Framework) 6: asp.net core So I guess that would be .NET Core 3.1
  - oaiey 6y ago
    The benchmark has to be read with some knowledge. For example Plaintext is given you an indicator how good the runtime and the HTTP stack is. JSON goes one step further and gives you the comparison with common REST APIs including JSON serialization. One step further is then there is Fortune which also includes some DB layer and should representative for applications. However, also check the definition of the rows. With Plaintext there are 3-10 entries for ASP.NET Core with different level of comfort (from "do not do that at home", to express like middlewares to "rails like MVC")
GordonS 6y ago
I'm not sure where on earth you have got this notion from; the .NET Core team have been performance focused for a long time now, and blog posts from the .NET team detailing perf improvements have been posted on HN multiple times. You even have hardware intrinsics available to play with, and for performance-sensitive libraries such as hashing algorithms, it's typical for performance to come within spitting difference of RAM speed.
- squid_demon 6y ago
  "I'm not sure where on earth you have got this notion from" Where on Earth? I could tell you precisely where if it mattered. I'm certainly glad the team at MS has been focusing on performance now because they certainly didn't when the team I was on decided to try it. (Hey, maybe they could help out the Visual Studio team as it takes like 10-15 seconds to open the app to an empty screen). I haven't run any tests lately (and probably never will as I'm not interested in a language that emits IL rather than machine code; or a language that uses a GC) so I apologize for throwing out the 15x number when it is probably not correct. It won't happen again. I would wonder why some game studios (like Supergiant Games / Hades) ended up porting their C# game engine to C this year? Was it because C# was fast enough? Or maybe it was to make the game more portable to other platforms? Not sure.

gameswithgo 6y ago

it wasn’t even 15x slower than C i feel like a lot of people’s ideas about c# performance are from before .net framework 4 which was years and years ago

RobCrusoe 6y ago
A lot of people’s opinions about dotnet are not informed by anything, they see Microsoft in the name and decide to drop snide remarks about how bad it must be, as you can see already from this thread.
- laichzeit0 6y ago
  It's not as if that reputation came about out of thin air. Developers have memory and are not quick to forgive or forget.
  - RobCrusoe 6y ago
    I think that claims about a thing should be based on observations concerning that thing, and not based on a folk memory acquired through other people’s attitudes and biases.
  - oaiey 6y ago
    .NET Core is 6 years old now. That is 3 ice ages ago in our business. This memory should be defragmented and then updated ;)
- fortran77 6y ago
  That's because they get rewarded on Hacker News for saying that -- with Points!

renanoliveira0 6y ago

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=ph&test=composite https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=...

rattray 6y ago
Summarizing what I think was the goal of posting this link: This benchmark ranking shows ASP.NET Core coming in 6th place, compared to Spring at 34th, Express at 76th, and Django/Rails near the bottom. I can't speak to the usefulness of the benchmark used.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  techempower is the go to web framework benchmark suite. it is of course gamed heavily. c# does as well as any garbage collected framework, half as fast as the best rust/c++ ones
- codeulike 6y ago
  I didn't recognise hardly any of the frameworks in that list so here's my little translation of the top 6 for people like me: 1: Drogon (c++ Framework) 2: Actix (Rust Framework) 3: may-minihttp (Rust Framework) 4: Lithium (C++ Framework) 5: Jooby.x (Java/Kotlin Framework) 6: asp.net core So I guess that would be .NET Core 3.1
- oaiey 6y ago
  The benchmark has to be read with some knowledge. For example Plaintext is given you an indicator how good the runtime and the HTTP stack is. JSON goes one step further and gives you the comparison with common REST APIs including JSON serialization. One step further is then there is Fortune which also includes some DB layer and should representative for applications. However, also check the definition of the rows. With Plaintext there are 3-10 entries for ASP.NET Core with different level of comfort (from "do not do that at home", to express like middlewares to "rails like MVC")

GordonS 6y ago

I'm not sure where on earth you have got this notion from; the .NET Core team have been performance focused for a long time now, and blog posts from the .NET team detailing perf improvements have been posted on HN multiple times. You even have hardware intrinsics available to play with, and for performance-sensitive libraries such as hashing algorithms, it's typical for performance to come within spitting difference of RAM speed.

squid_demon 6y ago
"I'm not sure where on earth you have got this notion from" Where on Earth? I could tell you precisely where if it mattered. I'm certainly glad the team at MS has been focusing on performance now because they certainly didn't when the team I was on decided to try it. (Hey, maybe they could help out the Visual Studio team as it takes like 10-15 seconds to open the app to an empty screen). I haven't run any tests lately (and probably never will as I'm not interested in a language that emits IL rather than machine code; or a language that uses a GC) so I apologize for throwing out the 15x number when it is probably not correct. It won't happen again. I would wonder why some game studios (like Supergiant Games / Hades) ended up porting their C# game engine to C this year? Was it because C# was fast enough? Or maybe it was to make the game more portable to other platforms? Not sure.