6 ms·

> It’s already in active use by teams at Microsoft and other companies... This means nothing anymore. MSFT says that about everything they release and users ar

> It’s already in active use by teams at Microsoft and other companies... This means nothing anymore. MSFT says that about everything they release and users are still often left with the feeling that they are guinea pigs testing a very unfinished product. > For Visual Studio users, you need Visual Studio 16.8 or later to use .NET 5.0 on Windows and the latest version of Visual Studio for Mac) on macOS. The C# extension for Visual Studio Code already supports .NET 5.0 and C# 9. Reading this makes me wonder who is still using Visual Studio. That IDE is so bad it's beyond believe. .NET 5 is a standalone runtime which anyone can install. You can write C# in a text editor and build and run it from the command line. Why the hell do Windows developers need to install an entire new IDE in order to use the latest version of the .NET runtime? It's ridiculous beyond belief. Really shows that Visual Studio Code is the future. All you have to do is install the latest runtime and update the plugin so it shows you suggestions for all the latest language features. No need to install a new version of Visual Studio Code itself. > .NET 5.0 is the first release in our .NET unification journey. This might cause confusion. .NET 5 is basically .NET Core 3.2 but has been renamed to .NET 5 so that .NET Framework 4.x users can finally get convinced to move to .NET Core. They just dropped the Core to make it look more appealing to them, but it's still .NET Core.

louthy 6y ago
I use Rider now, VS got to the point of being so slow that frequently I'd have to wait 0.5 seconds for each character I was typing to appear. The performance is utterly, utterly terrible. Yet, all I see from the VS team on Twitter is "look at this new useless feature we've added", when all I needed was for the code I'm typing to appear. God help you if you ever wanted to rename a symbol, it was Schrodinger's rename, it would either complete immediately, or never complete, lock up VS, and I'd have to restart. So I had to stop using it, and eventually I stopped using VS altogether. Rider has its own quirks and annoyances, but it's quick, and lets me type even when it's doing stuff. There seems to be something very wrong with the architecture of VS.
- fuzzy2 6y ago
  Actually Visual Studio is quite fast again. It's just that Resharper does its very best to slow it down. I don't believe this will ever change. Well except maybe Microsoft will fully deprecate COM-based in-process extensions.
  - Scramblejams 6y ago
    JetBrains is working hard to fix it: https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2020/02/24/update-running-resharper-process https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2020/02/24/update-running-...
    - fuzzy2 6y ago
      Of course. However, I’m not sure this will achieve the desired speedup, because part of Resharper still needs to run in-process to integrate with Visual Studio. And it integrates a lot. And I’m sure at least some of the APIs it uses are actually not asynchronous. So, only limited room for improvement.
- tester756 6y ago
  I'm using newest VS with Roslynator (instead of Resharper) and it doesn't feel slow once it "warms-up" I do have NVMe M2 Disk if that matters
  - louthy 6y ago
    I never used Resharper, just plain old VS. It was dog slow, I’ll never go back, it’s not just the performance, but lack of stability, crashes, lots of exceptions, etc. It just feels like a project that’s not been given the love, and one that’s just having more and more features built on top of shaky foundations. The other day one of my team (who still uses VS) complained of cut n paste not working (it would paste half the selection). The basics are broken in my humble opinion
- olvy0 6y ago
  I've been using Visual Studio 2010, and then 2017 and 2019, with a pretty big solution loaded, and never ran into issues like you mentioned. For me it was always pretty snappy, including refactoring actions. OTOH I've hardly ever used or installed Resharper (or Rider). When I did try Resharper, I found Visual Studio was dog slow, very much like what you described, and it provided me with very little benefit compared to what I already had in VS.
mrits 6y ago
It sounds like you just don't like IDEs.
apalmer 6y ago
Visual Studio is as objectively as possible not a bad IDE. If you have unlimited budget and are only doing C# and DotNet, only benefit of VS Code is start up performance. Of course for just about anything else VS Code is as good as Visual Studio. Can't speak to how prod ready this is, would never use a major upgrade like this in production within the first 6 months of it's release. Bless those who have the way but that's madness to me.
- jackfoxy 6y ago
  F# programmer here. I still find VS superior to anything on VS Code, and a lot of people prefer the VS Code Ionide F# IDE. Most importantly I could do everything in F# I need to do (or can do in VS), debugging, refactoring, interactive tests, on the free Community Edition of VS. It just happens I use Professional because my company pays for the license.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Krollifi 6y ago
Can vscode generate code behind files?
erendrake 6y ago
I switched from VS to Rider a few years ago and every time I have to go back for some old crusty project I get grumpy. Rider does more of what I want in an IDE for dotnet core. The console is integrated rather than being another window. better vim plugin. better md/json/yaml/helm/k8s file editing. VS Code is the future of the msft lead dotnet IDEs but rider is so good
zwieback 6y ago
Disagree, I've used VS since it was called VC++ and it's gotten steadily better. If you can afford to run a large-footprint IDE I think VS is pretty great. VSCode is an entirely different thing and I like it as well. But then, I also like Vi and Eclipse so maybe I'm just too forgiving...
forest_dweller 6y ago
> This means nothing anymore. MSFT says that about everything they release and users are still often left with the feeling that they are guinea pigs testing a very unfinished product. There is some truth to this but when it comes to the core .NET stuff that is pretty solid. However .NET core before version 2.0 was mess. > Reading this makes me wonder who is still using Visual Studio. That IDE is so bad it's beyond believe. That is your opinion man. Personally I really like VS. > Why the hell do Windows developers need to install an entire new IDE in order to use the latest version of the .NET runtime? It's ridiculous beyond belief. They aren't installing a whole IDE. It is an update to the existing VS 2019 version. The newest version of the IDE (which is 16.8) has support .NET 5.0. The vast majority of people that are using .NET core are using the latest Visual Studio 2019 already and this is a minor update (it takes maybe 10-20 minutes to install, so run the updater make a coffee and time you come back you should be good to go). > Really shows that Visual Studio Code is the future. All you have to do is install the latest runtime and update the plugin so it shows you suggestions for all the latest language features. No need to install a new version of Visual Studio Code itself. VS code and other alternative .NET IDEs doesn't support many of the things that are typically used around the .NET world e.g. SQL database projects don't work in Rider or VS Code (I just tried it with Rider) and I suspect that a lot of the tooling around that doesn't work. There probably a load of other stuff (that I don't use) that doesn't work either. It really depends what you are doing. > This might cause confusion. .NET 5 is basically .NET Core 3.2 but has been renamed to .NET 5 so that .NET Framework 4.x users can finally get convinced to move to .NET Core. They just dropped the Core to make it look more appealing to them, but it's still .NET Core. I know a lot of people that don't work with Microsoft tech think we are all dumb but we aren't all that dumb. Moving projects from .NET Fullfat to .NET Core maybe a large undertaking (depending on the project) depending on how the project is strutured and what tech it uses.
GordonS 6y ago
> Reading this makes me wonder who is still using Visual Studio. That IDE is so bad it's beyond believe Eh? Although I prefer Rider, I don't see how you can make that claim. Yes, it has perf issues, and at least in the past has had some stability issues too, but it's absolutely crammed with features and offers a great dev UX for everything from source control to debugging. > Why the hell do Windows developers need to install an entire new IDE in order to use the latest version of the .NET runtime? It's ridiculous beyond belief. To be clear, this is only for existing Visual Studio users. Microsoft has done this for major versions of dotnet core too, and while it's a minor inconvenience, I have believe there is a good reason for it. "ridiculous beyond belief" is a bit strong. > Really shows that Visual Studio Code is the future. VS Code and VS are like chalk and cheese - I'm a big fan of VS Code, but for developing with C# I much prefer the features of a full IDE, Rider or VS. Like a debugger, and applying changes during a debug session.

louthy 6y ago

I use Rider now, VS got to the point of being so slow that frequently I'd have to wait 0.5 seconds for each character I was typing to appear. The performance is utterly, utterly terrible. Yet, all I see from the VS team on Twitter is "look at this new useless feature we've added", when all I needed was for the code I'm typing to appear. God help you if you ever wanted to rename a symbol, it was Schrodinger's rename, it would either complete immediately, or never complete, lock up VS, and I'd have to restart. So I had to stop using it, and eventually I stopped using VS altogether. Rider has its own quirks and annoyances, but it's quick, and lets me type even when it's doing stuff. There seems to be something very wrong with the architecture of VS.

fuzzy2 6y ago
Actually Visual Studio is quite fast again. It's just that Resharper does its very best to slow it down. I don't believe this will ever change. Well except maybe Microsoft will fully deprecate COM-based in-process extensions.
- Scramblejams 6y ago
  JetBrains is working hard to fix it: https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2020/02/24/update-running-resharper-process https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2020/02/24/update-running-...
  - fuzzy2 6y ago
    Of course. However, I’m not sure this will achieve the desired speedup, because part of Resharper still needs to run in-process to integrate with Visual Studio. And it integrates a lot. And I’m sure at least some of the APIs it uses are actually not asynchronous. So, only limited room for improvement.
tester756 6y ago
I'm using newest VS with Roslynator (instead of Resharper) and it doesn't feel slow once it "warms-up" I do have NVMe M2 Disk if that matters
- louthy 6y ago
  I never used Resharper, just plain old VS. It was dog slow, I’ll never go back, it’s not just the performance, but lack of stability, crashes, lots of exceptions, etc. It just feels like a project that’s not been given the love, and one that’s just having more and more features built on top of shaky foundations. The other day one of my team (who still uses VS) complained of cut n paste not working (it would paste half the selection). The basics are broken in my humble opinion
olvy0 6y ago
I've been using Visual Studio 2010, and then 2017 and 2019, with a pretty big solution loaded, and never ran into issues like you mentioned. For me it was always pretty snappy, including refactoring actions. OTOH I've hardly ever used or installed Resharper (or Rider). When I did try Resharper, I found Visual Studio was dog slow, very much like what you described, and it provided me with very little benefit compared to what I already had in VS.

mrits 6y ago

It sounds like you just don't like IDEs.

apalmer 6y ago

Visual Studio is as objectively as possible not a bad IDE. If you have unlimited budget and are only doing C# and DotNet, only benefit of VS Code is start up performance. Of course for just about anything else VS Code is as good as Visual Studio. Can't speak to how prod ready this is, would never use a major upgrade like this in production within the first 6 months of it's release. Bless those who have the way but that's madness to me.

jackfoxy 6y ago
F# programmer here. I still find VS superior to anything on VS Code, and a lot of people prefer the VS Code Ionide F# IDE. Most importantly I could do everything in F# I need to do (or can do in VS), debugging, refactoring, interactive tests, on the free Community Edition of VS. It just happens I use Professional because my company pays for the license.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Krollifi 6y ago

Can vscode generate code behind files?

erendrake 6y ago

I switched from VS to Rider a few years ago and every time I have to go back for some old crusty project I get grumpy. Rider does more of what I want in an IDE for dotnet core. The console is integrated rather than being another window. better vim plugin. better md/json/yaml/helm/k8s file editing. VS Code is the future of the msft lead dotnet IDEs but rider is so good

zwieback 6y ago

Disagree, I've used VS since it was called VC++ and it's gotten steadily better. If you can afford to run a large-footprint IDE I think VS is pretty great. VSCode is an entirely different thing and I like it as well. But then, I also like Vi and Eclipse so maybe I'm just too forgiving...

forest_dweller 6y ago

> This means nothing anymore. MSFT says that about everything they release and users are still often left with the feeling that they are guinea pigs testing a very unfinished product. There is some truth to this but when it comes to the core .NET stuff that is pretty solid. However .NET core before version 2.0 was mess. > Reading this makes me wonder who is still using Visual Studio. That IDE is so bad it's beyond believe. That is your opinion man. Personally I really like VS. > Why the hell do Windows developers need to install an entire new IDE in order to use the latest version of the .NET runtime? It's ridiculous beyond belief. They aren't installing a whole IDE. It is an update to the existing VS 2019 version. The newest version of the IDE (which is 16.8) has support .NET 5.0. The vast majority of people that are using .NET core are using the latest Visual Studio 2019 already and this is a minor update (it takes maybe 10-20 minutes to install, so run the updater make a coffee and time you come back you should be good to go). > Really shows that Visual Studio Code is the future. All you have to do is install the latest runtime and update the plugin so it shows you suggestions for all the latest language features. No need to install a new version of Visual Studio Code itself. VS code and other alternative .NET IDEs doesn't support many of the things that are typically used around the .NET world e.g. SQL database projects don't work in Rider or VS Code (I just tried it with Rider) and I suspect that a lot of the tooling around that doesn't work. There probably a load of other stuff (that I don't use) that doesn't work either. It really depends what you are doing. > This might cause confusion. .NET 5 is basically .NET Core 3.2 but has been renamed to .NET 5 so that .NET Framework 4.x users can finally get convinced to move to .NET Core. They just dropped the Core to make it look more appealing to them, but it's still .NET Core. I know a lot of people that don't work with Microsoft tech think we are all dumb but we aren't all that dumb. Moving projects from .NET Fullfat to .NET Core maybe a large undertaking (depending on the project) depending on how the project is strutured and what tech it uses.

GordonS 6y ago

> Reading this makes me wonder who is still using Visual Studio. That IDE is so bad it's beyond believe Eh? Although I prefer Rider, I don't see how you can make that claim. Yes, it has perf issues, and at least in the past has had some stability issues too, but it's absolutely crammed with features and offers a great dev UX for everything from source control to debugging. > Why the hell do Windows developers need to install an entire new IDE in order to use the latest version of the .NET runtime? It's ridiculous beyond belief. To be clear, this is only for existing Visual Studio users. Microsoft has done this for major versions of dotnet core too, and while it's a minor inconvenience, I have believe there is a good reason for it. "ridiculous beyond belief" is a bit strong. > Really shows that Visual Studio Code is the future. VS Code and VS are like chalk and cheese - I'm a big fan of VS Code, but for developing with C# I much prefer the features of a full IDE, Rider or VS. Like a debugger, and applying changes during a debug session.