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That's because they're working on Linux support, they don't care about Linux desktop. Steam os is based on Linux, but it would be naive to think they put much w

That's because they're working on Linux support, they don't care about Linux desktop. Steam os is based on Linux, but it would be naive to think they put much work in supporting Linux desktop, since the market share is neglibe.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
What's interesting is that games are one of the main reasons the market share is negligible. It used to be games and Office, but home users can increasingly get by with the web version or Google Docs or LibreOffice. But people still keep Windows on their PCs for games. If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows?
- airstrike 6y ago
  Google Docs is no replacement for actual serious work in Office. That's like asking someone who uses NetBeans to switch over to repl.it
  - dkersten 6y ago
    Sure, but a lot of companies have switched. My previous job was a banking company with thousands of employees and they were using Google's suite for everything. So while Office is still ahead for serious work, there are more and more large companies out there who have migrated away.
  - WhyNotHugo 6y ago
    This "actual serious work" you mention is not what most people use Office for anyway. Most people write simple letters, and do very basic spreadsheets. This is probably one of those "80% of the people use 20% of the features" scenario.
    - Qwertious 6y ago
      'This "actual serious work" you mention is not what most people use Office for anyway. Most people write simple letters, and do very basic spreadsheets.' Most "actual serious work" involves receiving and modifying other peoples' drafts. As such, if anyone uses an advanced feature, everyone uses the advanced feature.
  - netjiro 6y ago
    From what I see when I step in to help various organisations improve I'd argue the opposite. Google docs improves coordination, which is the largest real cost of using ms office. To the point where most orgs have structured their whole operation around _how_ they are used to using ms office, with it's limitations. Stepping away from ms office allows concurrent distributed work, which radically improves efficiency. google docs is a low friction entry into modern work coordination. It's not what I recommend for heavy work. But for heavy work ms office fails as well, just a little bit later, and with more costly result.
- coding_lobster 6y ago
  Cortana.
  - gentleman11 6y ago
    If only we could disable that creepfest
  - na85 6y ago
    >Cortana Agreed, Cortana is a big reason to avoid Windows.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows? Let me tell you a story: In the late 1940s the US airforce had a serious problem: many pilots were dying in incidents caused by apparent pilot error. At one point this number reached 17 pilots a day. After ruling out training as a cause, they turned their attention to ergonomics. In the 1920s, they had conducted a study to determine the physical dimensions of the average pilot and standardized all cockpit layout based on said average. Naturally, they suspected that the average pilot had changed over the nearly-two-decades since and conducted another study. With over 140 measurements of over 4,000 pilots they expected to be able to create a new standard for cockpit dimensions and layout that would better fit the contemporary average pilot. And they probably would have done just that, if not for Lt. Gilbert S. Daniels. Daniels was a junior researcher assigned to taking the measurements. Due to his previous work on human body measurements, Daniels believed that designing for the average pilot was useless at best. Daniels created a picture of the average pilot the military wanted, which he defined as being in the middle 30% of values in each measurement, and then demonstrated that exactly 0 pilots in the study matched all 10 of the dimensions determined to be most relevant. Further, even when you chose only 3 such dimensions, fewer than 4% of pilots matched. The conclusion was that there was no such thing as the average pilot and if you designed around this fictional entity your cockpit wouldn't fit anybody. If you wanted to have pilots that fit the cockpit, you had to design cockpits that would adjust to fit individual pilots. The lesson? Linux Desktop evangelists seem to expect that people should love Linux Desktop because they worked so hard to make it usable for what they imagine is the average user, apparently completely ignorant that there is no such person. Desktops are personal devices that need to be able to accommodate the user's individual workflows. Does Windows excel at this? Well, not really and it has been getting worse, but Windows accommodates software in a way that Linux Desktop doesn't: it isn't hostile to commercial software, it works hard at maintaining compatibility with old software, and it allows for direct distribution from developer to user without middlemen gumming up the works. That enables third parties to help users fit their computer to their workflow. Linux Desktop is bad at all these things and though it is theoretically more adjustable, the reality is that trying to fit it to your usecases is an exercise in fighting this average user mentality and often involves dealing with a ludicrously complex intertwined system of mis-matched components at a very intimate level. That's what is keeping people on Windows.
ShamelessC 6y ago
I think the general idea here is that if you're competent enough with Linux to build something as useful as proton, you should be able to do something as simple as make a proper Linux client. Having said that, I haven't experienced any of the issues mentioned.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  I'm not kidding when I say that deep technical work like building proton is a lot easier in some sense then building a good multiplatform UI.
WhyNotHugo 6y ago
Supporting the Linux desktop means they can leverage more of it for whatever solution they ship. They can either use an existing display server, or write their own. The latter would be absurdly more expensive.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

What's interesting is that games are one of the main reasons the market share is negligible. It used to be games and Office, but home users can increasingly get by with the web version or Google Docs or LibreOffice. But people still keep Windows on their PCs for games. If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows?

airstrike 6y ago
Google Docs is no replacement for actual serious work in Office. That's like asking someone who uses NetBeans to switch over to repl.it
- dkersten 6y ago
  Sure, but a lot of companies have switched. My previous job was a banking company with thousands of employees and they were using Google's suite for everything. So while Office is still ahead for serious work, there are more and more large companies out there who have migrated away.
- WhyNotHugo 6y ago
  This "actual serious work" you mention is not what most people use Office for anyway. Most people write simple letters, and do very basic spreadsheets. This is probably one of those "80% of the people use 20% of the features" scenario.
  - Qwertious 6y ago
    'This "actual serious work" you mention is not what most people use Office for anyway. Most people write simple letters, and do very basic spreadsheets.' Most "actual serious work" involves receiving and modifying other peoples' drafts. As such, if anyone uses an advanced feature, everyone uses the advanced feature.
- netjiro 6y ago
  From what I see when I step in to help various organisations improve I'd argue the opposite. Google docs improves coordination, which is the largest real cost of using ms office. To the point where most orgs have structured their whole operation around _how_ they are used to using ms office, with it's limitations. Stepping away from ms office allows concurrent distributed work, which radically improves efficiency. google docs is a low friction entry into modern work coordination. It's not what I recommend for heavy work. But for heavy work ms office fails as well, just a little bit later, and with more costly result.
coding_lobster 6y ago
Cortana.
- gentleman11 6y ago
  If only we could disable that creepfest
- na85 6y ago
  >Cortana Agreed, Cortana is a big reason to avoid Windows.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> If the games start to run on Linux, what's still keeping people on Windows? Let me tell you a story: In the late 1940s the US airforce had a serious problem: many pilots were dying in incidents caused by apparent pilot error. At one point this number reached 17 pilots a day. After ruling out training as a cause, they turned their attention to ergonomics. In the 1920s, they had conducted a study to determine the physical dimensions of the average pilot and standardized all cockpit layout based on said average. Naturally, they suspected that the average pilot had changed over the nearly-two-decades since and conducted another study. With over 140 measurements of over 4,000 pilots they expected to be able to create a new standard for cockpit dimensions and layout that would better fit the contemporary average pilot. And they probably would have done just that, if not for Lt. Gilbert S. Daniels. Daniels was a junior researcher assigned to taking the measurements. Due to his previous work on human body measurements, Daniels believed that designing for the average pilot was useless at best. Daniels created a picture of the average pilot the military wanted, which he defined as being in the middle 30% of values in each measurement, and then demonstrated that exactly 0 pilots in the study matched all 10 of the dimensions determined to be most relevant. Further, even when you chose only 3 such dimensions, fewer than 4% of pilots matched. The conclusion was that there was no such thing as the average pilot and if you designed around this fictional entity your cockpit wouldn't fit anybody. If you wanted to have pilots that fit the cockpit, you had to design cockpits that would adjust to fit individual pilots. The lesson? Linux Desktop evangelists seem to expect that people should love Linux Desktop because they worked so hard to make it usable for what they imagine is the average user, apparently completely ignorant that there is no such person. Desktops are personal devices that need to be able to accommodate the user's individual workflows. Does Windows excel at this? Well, not really and it has been getting worse, but Windows accommodates software in a way that Linux Desktop doesn't: it isn't hostile to commercial software, it works hard at maintaining compatibility with old software, and it allows for direct distribution from developer to user without middlemen gumming up the works. That enables third parties to help users fit their computer to their workflow. Linux Desktop is bad at all these things and though it is theoretically more adjustable, the reality is that trying to fit it to your usecases is an exercise in fighting this average user mentality and often involves dealing with a ludicrously complex intertwined system of mis-matched components at a very intimate level. That's what is keeping people on Windows.

ShamelessC 6y ago

I think the general idea here is that if you're competent enough with Linux to build something as useful as proton, you should be able to do something as simple as make a proper Linux client. Having said that, I haven't experienced any of the issues mentioned.

rowanG077 6y ago
I'm not kidding when I say that deep technical work like building proton is a lot easier in some sense then building a good multiplatform UI.

WhyNotHugo 6y ago

Supporting the Linux desktop means they can leverage more of it for whatever solution they ship. They can either use an existing display server, or write their own. The latter would be absurdly more expensive.