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How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

• baicunko 6y ago
  This should be ilegal.
  • krzyk 6y ago
    And I think it is illegal in EU.
  • pessimizer 6y ago
    In the US of the 21st century, it's far more likely that rolling back the firmware update would be the illegal thing.
• gonzo41 6y ago
  How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue? Fun story. I had a printer for a while, and then I just didn't after university. I don't print anything anymore. To no loss at all. It's either on my phone or I write things with a pen.
  • netflixandkill 6y ago
    I'm sure some clever executive figured out they'd increase revenue enough before they were hit by a regulator or lawsuit to more than cover the subsequent apologies and announcement of their new firmware that loves free markets and customers SO MUCH that it accepts other cartridges again (but HP can't guarantee quality! So sad!). I generally print things on the order of single digit pages per year, but some people do things like print PDFs to read them or still live in fax land, etc. E-ink is making some inroads, but a fair portion of the population does like text on something physical and highlightable and pen-markable.
    • pessimizer 6y ago
      > I'm sure some clever executive figured out they'd increase revenue enough before they were hit by a regulator or lawsuit It's a pretty easy calculation, because they're not going to be forced to change anything. The race is against publicity and a loss of customer goodwill, not regulation. Who regulates businesses anymore for anything other than being owned by a Chinese person?
  • k_ 6y ago
    > I don't print anything anymore. I wish =/ Most of the documents I have to print are documents to be printed, signed, and scanned again (or sent by mail - not email). Some (including my employer) still don't accept anything else than signature on real paper somehow.. Luckily I have a "re-purpose device" at home (a young child with a huge appetite for drawings), but I'd still like to avoid this waste.
    • arusahni 6y ago
      Some PDF viewers (e.g., Preview, Okular) let you place images of your signature on a document and then export the "signed" version. I haven't had issues with getting these documents accepted.
      • remus 6y ago
        I've got a tablet so can actually sign PDFs with a proper signature. None the less, a company the other day insisted that I print out a form, sign it, take a picture of the signed form and send them that. It was almost enough to bin them off, but unfortunately I was deep enough in the bureaucracy by that point that sucking it up was less hassle.
        • ProZsolt 6y ago
          I just use this oneliner to "scan" it: convert -density 130 input.pdf -rotate 0.33 -attenuate 0.15 +noise Multiplicative -colorspace Gray output.pdf
    • himinlomax 6y ago
      Last time I was asked to do this, I imported the PDF in Gimp, rotated the picture slightly, pasted my signature and converted to 1 bit. Looked enough like a scan.
    • LeonM 6y ago
      Fun fact: on the receiving end they usually have complex systems in place to scan and process those documents back into digital format. And the people working with it pay good money to OCR those scanned documents to make the whole system usable. This is sometimes referred to as the 'five monkeys with a ladder' paradigm [0] (not to be confused with the '5 monkey experiment'). It basically comes down to: we must use paper format, because we have always done it that way, though nobody knows why we still do it. Having worked on a paperless accounting startup, I though that paper was still used for legal reasons. It turns out that (for most countries) this is mostly a misunderstanding. Digital documents are just as valid (if not higher level of assurance) as its paper counterparts. Many businesses still insist on the 'signature with a blue ink pen' thing, but again that is due to the 5 monkeys with a ladder problem. [0] https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6828/was-the-experiment-with-five-monkeys-a-ladder-a-banana-and-a-water-spray-condu https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6828/was-the-ex...
  • elmo2you 6y ago
    > How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue? It probably (if not certainly) is .. but with authorities systematically failing their duties on that subject, and for a long time too, don't expect much (if anything) to come from that. The sad (and in my personal opinion: criminal) reality is that the (official) meaning/interpretation of anti-trust has been systemically eroded over the years. No doubt as a consequence of relentless lobbying (corruption?), to the point it has become pretty much a total farce. One does not have to look far to find more examples of companies getting away with what should be punished as anti-trust behavior. HP is hardly an exception and don't expect anything to change. If anything, it might just get worse. By now, pretty much the whole system is designed to resist any change that isn't in favor of those who "invest" (lobby) into it. Pragmatically speaking, the only mitigation here is to avoid printing as much as possible. It won't do much, and certainly won't change a thing .. but at least this criminal enterprise will not get a penny of mine.
    • koolba 6y ago
      > It probably (if not certainly) is .. but with authorities systematically failing their duties on that subject, and for a long time too, don't expect much (if anything) to come from that. It's likely not an anti-trust issue. No single manufacturer has anything close to a monopoly and there's no legal duty to make it the printers compatible with third party modules. At best, some consumer might argue a case that there was an expectation of third party compatibility when they purchased their printers. Even that would be difficult to prove though. Vote with your wallet and buy something that will work with third party ink. Go a step further and avoid all HP products. That's the only way this will be solved.
      • elmo2you 6y ago
        > It's likely not an anti-trust issue. No single manufacturer has anything close to a monopoly .. Funny .. It's exactly this kind of response that illustrates what I meant with the erosion of the meaning of anti-trust. You appear to hold a rather narrow definition of what anti-trust means. One that is not surprisingly rather convenient for a lot of companies these days, and as mentioned a result of systemic lobbying efforts (for decades). Feel free to know little about history, and go make those same mistakes all over again. Just don't even dare complain, when you end up regretting it. > ... and there's no legal duty to make it the printers compatible with third party modules. I never argued there is such a thing. There is a legal duty to prosecute anti-trust violations though. > Vote with your wallet and buy something that will work with third party ink. Go a step further and avoid all HP products. That's the only way this will be solved. Sadly, that won't solve it either (history has a way of proving that point). But it is indeed the only thing you can really do. Still, as an argument it is about as valid as saying: "don't go out on the street after dark, if you do not want to get killed". Might be equally true, pragmatically speaking. But totally side-steps that your country has a legal duty to at least try keep you from being murdered for no reason. You know .. because it signed and ratified that pesky little document called the Universal Declaration of Human Right ;-)
  • nelaboras 6y ago
    Try distance learning with your kids... Thanks to corona my printing has gone from 5pages/month to >30/day ;)
  • anonunivgrad 6y ago
    Since this is not an agreement in restraint of trade, just a unilateral action, then antitrust law would only have something to say if HP had a monopoly on printers, which no one can seriously argue.
• krzyk 6y ago
  Is it ink cartridge or toner cartridge? The post is about LaserJet
• ilikejam 6y ago
  HP printers do in-band firmware updates via print jobs?
  • nhubbard 6y ago
    Actually, yeah. It's actually a really great solution, because it means you don't have to write a complicated firmware update protocol for every platform; you just "print" the firmware upgrade, and it gets the job done for you. Of course, it opens up the printer to some pretty serious security problems, but let's just ignore that...
  • tenebrisalietum 6y ago
    An old Actiontec router I had actually used FTP to recover its firmware. I recall having to use a QUOTE FLASH command.
• mschuster91 6y ago
  Oh, HP and their black magic "prints". Back when I had to restore a Z2100 plotter for my employer, I found out that all the "clean printhead", "print test plots" and other commands - including when you launch them from the printer buttons instead from the web interface - are just ordinary print jobs under the hood. If you ask me, this is one huge security hole waiting to be exploited. And if anyone ever wants to play around with the Z2100 or the formatter (HP50XI/SCR or HP50XISCR)... they're x86 Linux based! Reboot the printer in Service mode, navigate to "Service Utility", then "Enable/Disable Firewall" and upon a reboot you get a SSH root shell. Kill all processes, sync the disk, and dd it out to your computer, as the laptop PATA disk on the formatter is encrypted. If you're afraid of the PATA disk ever failing, take a CF card, a CF to 2.5in mini IDE adapter, dd the image from the previos step and replace the old disk.
• alpanka 6y ago
  A VP at HP once told me they make 3/4 of their profits from selling inks (I am sure he exaggerated but still). You can buy original laserjet cartridges for $150 or third party cartridges for $40-60 (or $25 if you are happy with noname Chinese cartridges). So there is big money involved.
  • csharptwdec19 6y ago
    That number could make sense if 'toner' counts as ink. And TBF, a lot of the nice multifunction printers of the 2000s were sold at a pretty decent loss. > (or $25 if you are happy with noname Chinese cartridges). Okay so I'm not one of those '3rd party evil' people. But speaking as someone who has had to repair multiple large format Inkjet and Laser printers, I would have at least a few concerns about Hazmat; even first party toner is pretty nasty stuff.
    • sokoloff 6y ago
      When a set of 4 toner cartridges is $800 from HP for a $600 printer and the high-quality, I’ve used before, 3rd party toners are $120 for the set, let’s just say that HP won’t be getting that purchase.
  • hrktb 6y ago
    What's weird to me is big enough offices tend to switch to a subscription paid by the page, where the maker is engaged in doing reasonably whatever it takes (ink replacement, parts replacement etc.) to keep the machine printing. I heard of such arrangements with Canon, I heard for Xerox, and it seemed to be pretty standard. As long as there was no manipulation errors the company had no need to care about durability, maintenance etc.
  • eatthoselemons 6y ago
    That is funny we heard the same thing from a high up at HP
  • donmcronald 6y ago
    Greed should be the downfall of their printer business. Using technical measures to artificially limit consumer choice should be illegal. In Canada we have 123ink.ca. For my Brother printer a set of genuine high yield cartridges is $520. A completely generic set is $105. However, they also have their own (Moustache) branded set that's $130. I suspect their branded version is just a different sticker on the generic, but I buy the branded version. If they're willing to stamp their name on it and stand behind it that's worth $25 (+24%) to me. A brand name isn't worth $415 (+495%) though. These companies have ignored the risk of cheating their customers for a long time and now that customers are getting more informed the same companies think they should be able to force customers keep buying their garbage. No thanks. Their downfall should be swift and spectacular (in my dreams -lol).
• a012 6y ago
  Most of printer drivers are BS. I also bought a printer after lockdown, and had to spent hours to do research on the printer model that's interested me: Mac & linux compatible. The result is Brother is the most reliable and less BS than the rest printers. In the end, I bought a wireless Brother printer, and you can throw whatever cartridge in to it.
  • alpanka 6y ago
    HP laserjets have pretty good Linux support, it's usually plugnplay on Ubuntu.
    • pizza234 6y ago
      Confirmed, although it should be noted that some may require a blob ("Binary plugin") in order to print and/or scanning (mosts frequently scanning). See table here: https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/binary_plugin.html https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/bina.... > Most Linux distributions include HPLIP with their software, but most do not include the plug-in This is not exactly pleasing for open source enthusiasts (me included).
      • vetinari 6y ago
        That proprietary plugin for scanning provides WSD and eSCL (AirScan) support. However, your distro might use recent enough sane and sane-airscan, that does support these protocols. Due to recommendation here on HN, I've been checking Brother laser printers. They also require installing a proprietary package from the manufacturer, and a proprietary tool for the print queue setup.
        • pizza234 6y ago
          I've tested two HP laser all-in-one models (MFP series), and the scanner did not work at all without the plugin. But I have no experience with other models.
• pingec 6y ago
  Are there any online resources on what is the most reliable and cheap printer to use long term? I'm thinking a BW or Color laser printer where the parts last a long time and accept cheap third party toner cartridges?
  • zemvpferreira 6y ago
    Common wisdom has been any Brother printer (for the past 20 years maybe). I have one and love it compared to my previous HPs.
    • sokoloff 6y ago
      I’ve had very good service from my HP3600N color laser. Economical, reliable, decent paper handling. It was caught up in the HP driver security cert error of late last month (which makes me suspicious that it wasn’t an accident, but a reinstall of Apple drivers fixed it). Economics here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24985405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24985405
    • pingec 6y ago
      I have an OKI C301dn. What I like: - Build quality and the low price, the thing is huge and weighs 22kg and I paid only 100 EUR for a new one - Availability of cheap third party toner cartridges What I do not like: - Every toner cartridge must include a circuit board that needs to be replaced together with the cartridge. This increases toner cart replacement price by ~4 EUR - Third party toner quality varies a lot even from the same seller it's hard to find a cheap supplier with constantly good quality - After 7 years and about 3k pages printed, a white vertical line / streak started to show up on the printed pages Based on recommendations here I guess my next printer will be from Brother.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    I just ordered an HP laser printer since Wirecutter recommended it. Not used it yet. On HN I see people recommending Brother all the time though, so now I hope my HP is still ok :-)
• breakingcups 6y ago
  Besides all the obvious stuff, what also bugs me about this tactic is that it makes people weary of performing (or allowing automatic) firmware upgrades for printers, historically one of the least secure devices on a network.
  • mattkevan 6y ago
    My Epson has been bugging about a firmware update for ages. Not a chance I’m going to upgrade as it kicks up enough of a fuss about third-party ink as it is.
    • paulgb 6y ago
      The most infuriating thing about Epson inkjets is that they refuse to function if any color ink is low. I can't print black and white right now because I'm waiting on a yellow cartridge to arrive. Most bizarre is that I never actually print color, except for running calibration, so I don't know where all the ink went.
      • lukevp 6y ago
        The yellow ink is used to print a faint serial number on every page, meant to track back to you if you use the printer to counterfeit money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code
        • ta988 6y ago
          Oh there is that too... That would be interesting to have an estimationn of how much that makes.
        • morpheuskafka 6y ago
          > meant to track back to you if you use the printer to counterfeit money... Lol, because a $100 printer from Amazon can just pop out sheets of cash, even though they don't have any color shifting ink, no way to do the lithograph printing. I think these were developed before authorities realized how much power online (dis)information would have--it was all about trying to lock down speech and publication freedom, turning household printers into government minders.
• huhtenberg 6y ago
  Instead of disabling auto-updates you can also clear the default gateway on the printer. No gateway = no Internet access, but it's still LAN addressable.
  • dorfsmay 6y ago
    I have a Brother printer with wifi. The day it upgrades and block me from using reasonably priced toner, I'll set up to a Raspberry Pi as a print server and hook it up via USB. I'm wondering how much of a market there's going to be for this and if cheaper devices could be used.
    • bonoboTP 6y ago
      Assuming you can downgrade the firmware. The engineers probably thought of consumers trying to get rid of their malware, and design ways to make this difficult. I know some products blow physical fuses when updating the firmware and if you go back to the old firmware it won't run when it detects the blown fuse. You'd need significant electrical skills to restore/replace the fuse to the original state.
    • Tepix 6y ago
      > The day it upgrades and block me from using reasonably priced toner, I'll set up to a Raspberry Pi as a print server and hook it up via USB. By then it would be too late. Alas it seems Brother doesn't do these things. It's HP. People should stop buying their products.
      • huhtenberg 6y ago
        Brother makes remarkably well-designed and BS-free products. From hardware to software. It's like a breath of fresh air, really. E.g. - Had a paper jam at some point. The on-device screen said "Paper jam. Open the front panel." Opened it, the message changed to "Remove the toner cartridge." Removed it, and it kept on going to tell where to look, what to pull, etc. Ditto with the driver installation - downloaded, run, clicked OK, done. No junk to "manage my printing experience", just what's needed to control all printing options, all laid out clearly, and exactly where Microsoft says it should be. Beautiful. Almost shed a tear.
• bArray 6y ago
  I can understand HP wanting to prevent their customers from being conned into buying false cartridges, or wanting to ensure the best possible experience for customers. But. Is it not enough to bring up a dialogue or warning telling the user it's false and they are breaking warranty, rather than outright disabling the cartridge? This seems like HP is acting anti-competitively, such that a third party would struggle to feasibly make a part for the printer. Reasons that a third party may make a non-official part: * It's cheaper * It improves on HP design (flaws) * It offers some additional functionality not provided by standard parts * They offer support past HPs official support, preventing contribution of e-waste
  • simias 6y ago
    Your willingness to entertain the thought that HP may be acting on behalf of their customer's best interests is certainly commendable, but I don't think HP deserves it. It's common knowledge that ink cartridges are a racket and the real money maker for printer manufacturers. I have absolutely zero doubt that this move was only done in order to coerce their users into buying ridiculously overpriced first-party cartridges.
    • bonoboTP 6y ago
      I don't want to give them any tips but they could allow 3rd party ink but then intentionally make the printer spew the ink around in smudges and with color streaks etc when it think the ink is 3rd party. This would ruin the reputation of 3rd party ink and make people "learn" that they have to buy branded ink to get acceptable prints.
  • BiteCode_dev 6y ago
    > This seems like HP is acting anti-competitively I believe that they are and that it's not just a feeling. Some of their printers also used to tell your cartridges were empty before they were. Printer breaks very fast and support don't really help you: https://sebsauvage.net/streisand.me/matronix/index.php?20200603_070634_Pourquoi_j___ai_resilie_mon_abonnement_HP_Instant_Ink https://sebsauvage.net/streisand.me/matronix/index.php?20200... (french). Their policy on recurring payment is also pretty damning: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/ink-stained-wretches-battle-soul-digital-freedom-taking-place-inside-your-printer https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/ink-stained-wretches-b...
• diegocg 6y ago
  Does someone know how other vendors behave? I have heard good things about Brother printers lately, but I'm not sure if this tactic is also used by them and others
• jug 6y ago
  I thought this was illegal and why the third party cartridge market is so big. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend inkjet printers for normal home users: for plain text, I'd use a B&W laserjet printer and if I had to print in color (like broschures or food recipes with photos), I'd use a color laserjet. For quality photos, I'd send them in to a professional service: it's still pretty cheap compared to inkjet printing... I've had it with inkjet cartridges drying or having to be wasted as the printer takes them through a "restoration procedure" if it was long enough since you last printed, and you have to second guess your printer whether it's really just spending your ink, or if it does indeed do only what is absolutely necessary to not have them dry up.
  • AtlasLion 6y ago
    I use inkjet printers and I am very satisfied. I am using an Epson printer with what they call EcoTank. Just tanks with different color inks that you can refill yourself.
    • roomey 6y ago
      Have to say this was a life saver during lockdown. 100s of full colour pages later and still not a dent in the ink levels. Really amazing
    • colejohnson66 6y ago
      How’s the ink life? As in: does it “dry up”? Because inkjets have a tendency to do that over time.
      • abfan1127 6y ago
        my ink jets always dried up. I print once a month or so. by inkjets would clog, then I'd have to use my ink to unclog it. I switched back to a laser printer. so much more durable.
    • spicymaki 6y ago
      Two major problems with the Epson EcoTank printer: 1) The Epson EcoTank has a fixed printhead system where if the printhead gets damaged or clogged, then replacing it can become expensive. Over time or if you do not print continuously, the printhead can become damaged and/or clogged. HP/Canon keeps the printhead on the cartridge itself so the printheads are replaced continuously. 2) There is an infamous problem "Epson Ink pad is at the end of its service life error". The Ink pad absorbs excess ink during printing and needs to be replaced after a while. Unfortunately to reset the error you need to send it back to Epson for servicing (even if you replace the inkpad itself). Epson claims that this error is also tied to the service lifetime of other parts in the system and they would need to be replaced as well (AKA: planned obsolescence). The cost of shipping + servicing + parts replacement is more than just replacing the printer all together. Even though the EcoTank fixes the ink refill issue it forces you to buy a whole new printer after a certain amount of use.
• sschueller 6y ago
  It's for security. Your printer might catch fire and burn your house down. /s
• simonboulton 6y ago
  I don't want to be an apologist for HP or any other printer manufacturer, but there is at least one point that seems to be missed in this debate. If I design a printer, whether inkjet or any other type, I probably design it to some pretty tight tolerances in terms of the ink or toner. So I probably don't want people to drop in cartridges where the manufacturing tolerances might be way off the mark as they might well cause issues with the performance. That I as the manufacturer might be asked to fix, also possibly gaining a reputation for poor quality in the process. Yes, you might reasonably point out that OEM cartridges are expensive, but it's far from a monopoly out there, isn't it? In some ways, the expense of printing could be considered to be a good thing. Because it's a disincentive to the production of waste paper. Just my 2 cents worth :)
  • Chris2048 6y ago
    If the printhead is part of the cartridge, what problems could there be? When HP test the machine with a HP cartridge, there will be no fault found.
    • simonboulton 6y ago
      A good point. However, if, for example, the quality of the output is poor, I think that most people would not be sufficiently technically informed enough to be able to point to the printer head as the source the problem. Even if they do, there may well not be a brand sticker on the printer head. To most observers, then, it would be the printer that was faulty. Most printer manufacturers are protective of their brand images and don't want negative associations with that brand. Reasonable enough, as far as I can see. Let's face it, most branded ink or toner is expensive irrespective of brand. The best way of reducing printings costs? Probably just print less.
  • hrktb 6y ago
    The way around this could be to have the printer validate new cartridges through a test print, with eventually internal sensors to raise errors as needed. That would be to me the cleanest way for HP to handle third party ink.
  • 6y ago
• api 6y ago
  Don’t buy HP. Problem solved. Brother printers are great.
  • topspin 6y ago
    Don't print so damn much. Problem solved. The printer companies are milking the vestigial cohort of people that just can't not use masses of paper for everything. I struggle to find a lot of sympathy for their self inflicted plight, and I'd really like to quit hearing about it.
• GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Technically that's not an upgrade, it's a downgrade.
• Havoc 6y ago
  Home printers are dead anyway. The one thing I did still need them for (printing labels for packages) is being taken over by QR codes
  • Nextgrid 6y ago
    Thermal label printers (printing directly onto adhesive labels) are a good replacement for this use-case, with none of the downsides of ink or cartridges. Furthermore their usage in businesses means there's an endless supply of labels in various sizes so you don't depend on the manufacturer for anything.
    • jandrese 6y ago
      > with none of the downsides of ink or cartridges But with a whole new set of fresh and exciting downsides like expensive paper and fading in sunlight.
    • Chris2048 6y ago
      don't the thermal labels fade (or turn black) over time? Or do you mean toner i.e. heated plastic ink
  • GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Here that's one of the few things I still use mine for, printing QR labels for my outgoing parcels :P UPS, DHL and others still require us to print our own labels here. And QR codes are hard to write by hand ;)
    • busterarm 6y ago
      That's what I bought a Rollo thermal printer for years ago for around $150. Never spend on ink for shipping things again.
    • Havoc 6y ago
      >UPS, DHL and others That's rather odd. Haven't tried many but Hermes and RoyalMail were both cellphone screen QRs I would have imagined bigger companies like UPS would be a step ahead
• White_Wolf 6y ago
  christ... is this the HP idea of Trilogy? Not upgraded to Laser? I think my age is affecting my memory. Didn't HP did this before... at least twice?
• exabrial 6y ago
  I said in another thread... we have 3d printers! Lets make an open source laser printer around a cheap, commonly-available printer cartridge!
• dusted 6y ago
  Disgusting HP, I've actually liked them for their nice Linux support.. Does not matter though, I got a Ricoh MP C2500 for "picking" it up, the 4 toners ( CMYK ) cost around $320, then here's toner for the rest of my life, and I get to print and scan a4 and a3 in duplex. Really nice machine, has network support and trays for multiple paper sizes.. amazing what people throw out these days. I'd never go back, this machine is even well enough built that spare parts can be bought for it and it's well documented how to service it.
  • adingus 6y ago
    Brother has good Linux support from my experience. The drivers installed easily on my fedora machines and printed perfectly. When I installed the printer in windows it spit out 20 sheets of gibberish. Never thought I'd see the day when a printer worked better on Linux.
    • dusted 6y ago
      The first color laser printer I bought was a brother, the drivers were all but impossible to adjust, it'd put way too much toner on (but only when printing from linux), and the printer would seize up, jam paper and just flat out refuse to work most of the time, it had a service agreement on it, and I had a technician come to our house 3 times and he never managed to solve the problem either, so while I had a lot of respect for brother, that incident made me change my mind.
• bonoboTP 6y ago
  Mine doesn't have the allow downgrades option I think. But this worked for me: > "Unplug printer’s power cord from the back of the printer Press and HOLD the power button Plug power cord back in (keep holding power button) The HP logo will appear then the screen will go blank Hold power button for 10 seconds and then release it Press HOME BUTTON ONCE (top left) Press RETURN/BACK ARROW ONCE (bottom left) Press HOME BUTTON TWICE That should bring up the control screen NOTE: On my printer I couldn’t see the home or back buttons lit up but if you press to the left of the display area the buttons still work. Press MFG (Top Left) Press NEXT (Top Right) The screen idled with some weird looking grid design and status bar so I pressed the Power button and it went to the main printer screen on the display." Source: https://borncity.com/win/2018/09/19/blocks-hp-firmware-update-third-party-ink-catriges-again/ https://borncity.com/win/2018/09/19/blocks-hp-firmware-updat... And for the love of God don't let your printer out to the Internet any more, they may push a malicious update and disable this workaround in the future (or might have done it already in newer firmware?).
  • numpad0 6y ago
    How do I use a printer without an Internet connected computer either connected to or integrated into it?
    • rietta 6y ago
      Usb. If you want, set up a raspberry pi as a cups print server.
    • zaarn 6y ago
      My Laserprinter is connected via USB to my NAS. CUPS offers all the shenanigans, so it's autodetected by iDevices, Android, Windows and Mac on the network. Linux users usually figure it out within 30 minutes.
    • artificialLimbs 6y ago
      You could configure your router to only allow traffic from the printer to devices on the LAN, but at this point I would throw it out and buy a new one.
• alkonaut 6y ago
  Why would you buy an HP printer and try 3rd party ink, when you know the whole business model is subsidizing the printer and selling you expensive ink, and you also know that the whole printer cartrige space is full of DRM roadblock? Do this: look at what a printer + as many 1st party refills as you'll need for several years will cost you. Compare that number across multiple manufacturers. If the number seems high - yes, you discovered why inkjets are impopular. If the number seems OK: buy that one and use 1st party ink. Alternatively: buy a printer from a manufacturer that says they accept, and always will accept, 3rd party ink. Expect to pay more for that printer, or not find one.
  • save_ferris 6y ago
    > Why would you buy an HP printer and try 3rd party ink, when you know the whole business model is subsidizing the printer and selling you expensive ink, and you also know that the whole printer cartrige space is full of DRM roadblock? The vast majority of people don't know this because HP spends tons of money on marketing to distract consumers from the fact that they do this. Stuff like this is why consumer protection laws are so important: not everybody has the time, energy or mental capability to absorb the nuances of the business models behind the consumer products they buy. And billions are spent marketing to obscure these practices. Buying a consumer-grade printer shouldn't be such an effing minefield , but it is because they market heavily and lobby against consumer protections.
    • Chris2048 6y ago
      consumer protection is just a workaround / band-aid on proper advertising laws. Corps can take massive liberties on promotion, then CP needs to negotiate where "too far" wrt misrepresentation is. How about product categories have mandated upfront declarations, e.g. DRM / no-3rd-party printers need to state as such, in an unambiguous way on the box in some mandated-minimum font size.
      • danaris 6y ago
        That sort of stuff falls directly under the "consumer protection law" umbrella.
• trboyden 6y ago
  I still have no idea why people don't buy printers by first looking at what refills cost. It is simply baffling. The only way to penalize manufacturers that practice this type of anti-consumerism is to stop buying their products, not coming up with work-arounds. The average toner cartridge replacement from HP is $150. My Ricoh C261SFWn's replacement cartridge from Ricoh is $50. The quality is just as good and the Ricoh machine itself was cheaper than an HP. No brainer.
  • walrus01 6y ago
    it's a very old business model, the same way people don't buy 4/5 blade razor by first looking at what the ongoing blade purchases cost.
  • londons_explore 6y ago
    Most people don't print much. For typical home use, a printer might last 5 years printing 10 pages a month. That's 600 pages in the lifetime of the printer, which is less than a single cartridge. The real mistake people make is they don't realise they'll have to buy a new cartridge every 6 months because the old one has dried out.
    • hyperman1 6y ago
      I was in that category once then I got kids. A cheap color laser serves me well, even if the colors are off key enough to change any photo to some halloweenish nightmare. Kids dont care. Neither do I. Now the printer before that basically never printed. I used it to scan my (postal) mail. One day it decided to upgrade its firmware, then refused to scan without ink. What a waste.
  • takluyver 6y ago
    If you're printing a lot, this kind of calculation makes sense. If you only print a couple of times a month, it gets swamped by uncertainty: will the ink dry up before I use it? will they still sell those cartridges in 5 years time? will it have broken anyway? Under these conditions, it's not that illogical to spend less on the printer. It's also not always easy to compare. Maybe I can see that a HP cartridge holds more ink than the Epson one - but do they use ink at the same rate? How much do they use for cleaning the nozzles when you're not printing? Will I be able to get unofficial cartridges, and will they affect print quality? It's getting easier to compare, because they're getting on the subscription bandwagon, based on pages per month. But the smallest plan I see is HP's 15 pages/month, which is probably at least 3x what I actually print.
• varispeed 6y ago
  Samsung did similar thing with their S9 and probably other phones. You had perfectly working call recording functionality until it was blocked by software update that you cannot turn off - you can only postpone every day or so.
  • brink 6y ago
    They also removed the photosphere feature from their phone's camera app when they released the Gear 360. I'm not saying they're not allowed to do that, but it did make me want to never buy a Samsung phone again.
    • varispeed 6y ago
      I have the same feeling about Samsung. I am shopping for a new phone, unfortunately I cannot find any review that would say whether call recording works on a particular phone.
• darkport 6y ago
  I made the mistake of buying an HP printer years ago. But I found a 'neat trick'. You can subscribe to the free Instant Ink program using a test credit card, i.e. a number from https://developer.paypal.com/docs/payflow/payflow-pro/payflow-pro-testing/#credit-card-numbers-for-testing https://developer.paypal.com/docs/payflow/payflow-pro/payflo.... And ~2 days later you have ink sent to your door. Fuck you HP.
  • rwl4 6y ago
    Isn't that credit card fraud?
    • takluyver 6y ago
      New printers often come with a trial of the manufacturer's subscription plan, which will automatically order ink when it's running low. I guess if you activate the subscription when it runs low, it will send a new cartridge straight away. This probably also works with a real card number if you just cancel the subscription before it starts charging. I'd assume that only works once per printer - or at least it's enough of a pain to repeat it that most people would rather pay. The smallest subscription plans are pretty cheap.
      • tzs 6y ago
        That’s got to be it. No way would a test card number actually work. Live payment processor environments decline them. They only work in payment processor test environments. If the merchant’s backend doesn’t special case them and sends them through, they will be declined.
      • noisem4ker 6y ago
        In HP's case, the cartridges will not work if the subscription has been cancelled.
  • morpheuskafka 6y ago
    That cartridge will stop working when the place is cancelled, though...
• 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  Ink tank if you have to go non laser mode. I own like 2 HP 5820 ink tank printers and had to change a part inside once. Other than that can do other than counting pages but 3 years they havent done that. Not that I update my printers
• leonixyz 6y ago
  This is exactly why I did assign a static IP to my HP printer, and firewalled to block it from getting internet access.
• userbinator 6y ago
  I remember coming across forums long ago (at least 15+ years) where some friendly hackers had figured out how to patch out checks like these and posted modified firmware for various printers with features like "cartridge always full" and "automatic waste ink reset" (mostly applicable to inkjets with CIS instead of lasers), and this was at a time when it wasn't that easy to change the firmware of a printer (which is frankly quite scary). I have long lost the link, and I'm not sure how much of such communities exist anymore, but that was an interesting discovery that, for a few days, I spent many hours reading.
• Unklejoe 6y ago
  If all you need is black and white printing, there is no need to be buying HP inkjet printers anymore. Get yourself a <$100 Brother laser printer and never look back. They work under Linux without any configuration and you can refill the toner for like $5 on eBay. Mine has been going strong for like 10 years now.
  • sircastor 6y ago
    When I did tech support for HP some 20 years ago, our advice to consumers was never to refill your toner as the photo reactive material on the drum would wear over time. I always assumed this was true and the cartridge would last maybe 2-3x the initial amount of toner. I’m amazed that is 10 years! That’s awesome.
    • londons_explore 6y ago
      I have seen the photo reactive material wear. Seems to be rough particles come from somewhere and scratch it.
  • billsmithaustin 6y ago
    Brother also has a handy iOS app for printing and scanning.
    • cnity 6y ago
      Are these shill accounts? I've seen raving template-looking comments for Brother in every printer thread for the past few weeks. Get yourself a <$100 Brother(TM) printer. With their all new handy iOS app, you can't go wrong! Edit: Sorry if I'm jumping the gun. Maybe they really are just great?
      • JohnJamesRambo 6y ago
        I’m gonna get myself one and see. I’m leaning towards the comments are just authentic users excited about a quality product. I never got an uncanny valley feeling from them. I’m just so sick of the inkjet racket and this latest HP move is the last straw.
• HeyHoJoe 6y ago
  Joke’s on them, my new but cheap POS HP printer won’t even recognise and connect to the wifi, so it can’t ever download updates.
  • amir734jj 6y ago
    That was very funny. Thanks for the laugh
• 0x262d 6y ago
  I think I might have managed to prevent mine from updating so far. Does anyone have an easy to follow guide to blocking it from internet access?
• foolzcrow 6y ago
  Dump hp brand
• abnry 6y ago
  Why hasn't there been a class action lawsuit yet?
• Mister_Snuggles 6y ago
  Interesting. I have the exact same printer (HP Color LaserJet M254dw) and was curious to see if it automatically updated itself. The firmware datecode on my printer, 20190807, is even older than what the author downgraded to. I'm not sure if I turned auto updates off when I set the printer up. I did go through most of the configuration UI via a web browser and know that I switched it to "IT-managed" mode - maybe that turned off auto updates. The printer is on a VLAN that connects to the internet, but I've turned off every option that sounds like it reaches out to a cloud service. Overall, this is a decent printer for me. It seems to meet all of my requirements - I can leave it unused for long periods and it will still wake up and print as soon as I tell it to. It's a laser printer, so no worries about clogged nozzles/dried up ink. There are four individual toner cartridges, so no need to a set of three colours because one ran out. Windows and MacOS both discovered the printer on the network and automatically figured out the drivers. Printers generally suck, but this one doesn't seem to suck too badly.
• pombrand 6y ago
  You can't even find aftermarket cartridges for HP's new printers like the Officejet 9020, and a set of OEM replacement ink costs $100. They're also paranoid devices which re-enable auto updates by themselves, which is probably against EU law but hey :| Guess the only option is keeping it off the internet completely.
• Fej 6y ago
  How far back is HP going with these firmware updates? Or are they only updating models that they are currently selling? They've been doing this since at least 2016, but whether they've gone back farther than that is of interest.
• xbeta 6y ago
  Slightly off-topic: Any recommendation on a good wifi printer + scanner combo for home office? Works for macOS, Linux and Windows too.
• iceman2654 6y ago
  I'm just going to say it....Inkjet printers are one of those technologies that just has to die (for general printing usage). Same with HP Consumer. I don't mind HPE.