10 ms·

Valve is doing god’s work when it comes to Linux gaming. I have played over 40 hours of GTA V without many troubles. The game looks great and performs great. So

Valve is doing god’s work when it comes to Linux gaming. I have played over 40 hours of GTA V without many troubles. The game looks great and performs great. So glad I could get rid of my windows install.

merlinscholz 6y ago
I've had the same experience with Doom (2016). The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux, which threw me off for the first few hours. After getting used to it I only boot to Windows for UWP games.
- yakubin 6y ago
  Low input latency irritates you? That's a new one.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation" It threw them off for the first few hours, as written. Doesn't mean that low latency in general irritates them, just that they weren't used to it at first.
    - jonathanstrange 6y ago
      I have to agree with yakubin, though, and don't think it was a snarky comment. He just pointed out that it was an odd complaint. Gamers go at great length to reduce input lag on Windows.
      - capableweb 6y ago
        You agree that because you're not used to something, that means you're not a fan of that thing in general? I'm a gamer myself. Upgrading my display makes me slightly off-game myself, until I get used to the new one. Same when getting a new car, where the brakes are way more sensitive than on a old car. Doesn't mean I don't like the brakes to be more sensitive, just means I'm not used to it. And yes, the first few weeks of sensitive brakes are irritating, just touch the pedal and the car grinds quickly to a full halt. But now I do like it better compared to when you fully press down the pedal and the car slowly stops.
  - thefz 6y ago
    I read it in a sense that it's hard to adjust back once muscle memory is set to a certain value.
  - gentleman11 6y ago
    Doom 2016 and eternal have really significant mouse lag on windows. It’s really hard to get used to. It’s most noticeable if you have recently played an actually responsive FPS recently
    - bitmunk 6y ago
      Wait, so I tried to fix the mouse lag in Windows for days and the problem was Doom? Fuck.
- marvin 6y ago
  >The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux Huh. That's a big competitive advantage in competitive games. Why don't pro CS players use Linux? Is the difference smaller in the games that have been optimized for competitive play?
  - seg_lol 6y ago
    > for the first few hours
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    The PCs are provided by the tourney organisers, and it's a marginal benefit really. Most professional CS is played at 4:3 stretched so the PC is pulling in hundreds of FPS
    - Alupis 6y ago
      > Most professional CS is played at 4:3 stretched so the PC is pulling in hundreds of FPS That's unlikely to be true anymore. Even a modestly modern GPU can produce 100's of FPS in CS:GO at 1920x1080 or higher resolutions. Benchmarks for the 3080 were showing 400-500 FPS in CS:GO at 1440p resolutions. After maybe double your screen refresh rate, all excess FPS don't matter and are effectively wasted. Pro's mostly use 144Hz monitors because 240Hz is indistinguishable[1] - making anything above 288FPS basically a waste (and it's debatable if anything above 144FPS with FreeSync enabled is a waste too). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZbAXsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZbAXsA
      - mhh__ 6y ago
        The stretched resolution is because it makes people thicker at the expense of FoV, not performance as per se
  - nvarsj 6y ago
    I don't know how true this is. Personally I've always noticed significantly more input lag on Linux than Windows for games. I even used to hack on ezquake's Linux port to try and get the input lag down, but the Linux kernel just caused too much latency. This could have changed since then though. You have to realize MS invested significantly in "gaming APIs" like DirectInput, DirectX all tuned to low latency gaming. Linux never really had anything like that. I'd love to see results showing otherwise, I'd far prefer to game in Linux if possible.
- fctorial 6y ago
  What were the specs of your machine?
  - merlinscholz 6y ago
    Ryzen 2700X and a MSI GeForce 1070 TI on a 2k screen
minetest2048 6y ago
I think that the only gaming company that actively improve Linux gaming is only Valve. Compare this to Stadia, where I never see any news on them contributing to the Linux gaming stack
- nextaccountic 6y ago
  Well.. and Aspyr for porting. And CodeWeavers for employing Wine devs. And Collabora: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/10/collabora-expect-their-linux-kernel-work-for-windows-game-emulation-in-kernel-5-11 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/10/collabora-expect-their...
  - minetest2048 6y ago
    Right, I forgot about those Linux porting companies such as Aspyr and Feral Interactive. And Collabora isn't specifically a gaming company, but they and CodeWeavers also helps
    - bicolao 6y ago
      Both Collabora and CodeWeavers collaborate with Valve (and with funding from Valve?) on the gaming front though so it's not wrong to attribute that to Valve (yes CodeWeavers also improves Wine independently, but that's more than just games).
      - ekianjo 6y ago
        Codeweavers is mainly working to support Proton these days, check out this interview from a few days ago: https://boilingsteam.com/podcast-12-with-james-ramey-from-codeweavers/ https://boilingsteam.com/podcast-12-with-james-ramey-from-co...
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    Aspyr has not been doing any porting for years. Feral is scaling down their porting as well. Mainly because of Proton: https://boilingsteam.com/proton-the-native-port-killer/ https://boilingsteam.com/proton-the-native-port-killer/
Jnr 6y ago
If I remember correctly, Valve started doing this some time ago as an "insurance policy", when Microsoft spoke about locking down Windows (before they introduced Windows Store). It is amazing to see how far Linux gaming has come since then. 10 years ago almost none of the big games worked, 5 years ago lots of games worked after fiddling with wine config, and now most of the games I have tried work out of the box after enabling Proton. Imagine what will come in the next 5 to 10 years.
- ubidubbiiui 6y ago
  Call me optimistic, but I imagine a larger amount of "most" work out of the box by then.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    A lot of games now don't work because of anti-cheat technologies. But Valve is working on this with Codeweavers with their refactoring of NTDLL.
    - eptcyka 6y ago
      The most egregious anti-cheat stuff is actually implemented in a windows kernel driver - I'm not optimistic about this being resolved without first party support for Linux.
      - arebhaibhai 6y ago
        Collabora guys are working on just that, FYI.
      - fctorial 6y ago
        > without first party support for Linux. Or for wine
        eptcyka 6y ago
        It would be quite the undertaking for wine to also emulate not just the Windows userspace but also the whole Windows kernel to allow for the rootkit anti-cheat driver to run.
ricardo81 6y ago
I bought Civ 6 for Linux purely because it was available on Linux. Bought from Steam. It does seem like they're pushing things in the right direction for Linux gaming.
- kungtotte 6y ago
  One thing that's important for Linux gaming is that games played under Proton on Steam are counted as Linux sales, so publishers and developers get accurate statistics on how many Linux gamers there are. If the market is big enough, cross platform development is viable from the start.
  - FrojoS 6y ago
    On the other hand, if the Windows version works fine with Vulcan, why go through the trouble of making a Linux version?
    - imtringued 6y ago
      It's probably easier to develop proton support for a Windows than to port the entire game to Linux.
      - kungtotte 6y ago
        Sure, but my point was that this shows the value in making a game that's easily portable to begin with. This is more for future games rather than converting existing ones.
    - rawfan 6y ago
      True. I've heard some devs are spending at least some time to optimize their games to work better with Proton.
      - fctorial 6y ago
        Wine/proton team could provide tech support service to firms trying to make their application wine compatible.
jpetso 6y ago
I fear what will happen to DirectX-on-Linux if Oracle vs. Google goes in favor of Oracle.
justin66 6y ago
> Valve is doing god’s work when it comes to Linux gaming. I have played over 40 hours of GTA V without many troubles. The game looks great and performs great. So glad I could get rid of my windows install. "I would actually prefer if you didn't play GTA V. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter since you're going to hell anyway. But still." - God
ivanceras 6y ago
I still have input lag experience with GTA V on linux despite using new graphics card. The only immediate solution I've found is to play in windowed mode. All other games are playing nicely (ie: Witcher 3, No man's sky).
loa_in_ 6y ago
They seem to agree that a free OS with an army of enthusiastic geeks ready at all times is at least almost as good for general public (casual gamers) as is MS proprietary garden. If Windows flopped somehow all my friends would have their gaming rigs with most of their games within few days thanks to my experience, and I wouldn't charge more than a few beers.

merlinscholz 6y ago

I've had the same experience with Doom (2016). The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux, which threw me off for the first few hours. After getting used to it I only boot to Windows for UWP games.

yakubin 6y ago
Low input latency irritates you? That's a new one.
- capableweb 6y ago
  "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation" It threw them off for the first few hours, as written. Doesn't mean that low latency in general irritates them, just that they weren't used to it at first.
  - jonathanstrange 6y ago
    I have to agree with yakubin, though, and don't think it was a snarky comment. He just pointed out that it was an odd complaint. Gamers go at great length to reduce input lag on Windows.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      You agree that because you're not used to something, that means you're not a fan of that thing in general? I'm a gamer myself. Upgrading my display makes me slightly off-game myself, until I get used to the new one. Same when getting a new car, where the brakes are way more sensitive than on a old car. Doesn't mean I don't like the brakes to be more sensitive, just means I'm not used to it. And yes, the first few weeks of sensitive brakes are irritating, just touch the pedal and the car grinds quickly to a full halt. But now I do like it better compared to when you fully press down the pedal and the car slowly stops.
- thefz 6y ago
  I read it in a sense that it's hard to adjust back once muscle memory is set to a certain value.
- gentleman11 6y ago
  Doom 2016 and eternal have really significant mouse lag on windows. It’s really hard to get used to. It’s most noticeable if you have recently played an actually responsive FPS recently
  - bitmunk 6y ago
    Wait, so I tried to fix the mouse lag in Windows for days and the problem was Doom? Fuck.
marvin 6y ago
>The most irritating thing was the reduced input latency on Linux Huh. That's a big competitive advantage in competitive games. Why don't pro CS players use Linux? Is the difference smaller in the games that have been optimized for competitive play?
- seg_lol 6y ago
  > for the first few hours
- mhh__ 6y ago
  The PCs are provided by the tourney organisers, and it's a marginal benefit really. Most professional CS is played at 4:3 stretched so the PC is pulling in hundreds of FPS
  - Alupis 6y ago
    > Most professional CS is played at 4:3 stretched so the PC is pulling in hundreds of FPS That's unlikely to be true anymore. Even a modestly modern GPU can produce 100's of FPS in CS:GO at 1920x1080 or higher resolutions. Benchmarks for the 3080 were showing 400-500 FPS in CS:GO at 1440p resolutions. After maybe double your screen refresh rate, all excess FPS don't matter and are effectively wasted. Pro's mostly use 144Hz monitors because 240Hz is indistinguishable[1] - making anything above 288FPS basically a waste (and it's debatable if anything above 144FPS with FreeSync enabled is a waste too). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZbAXsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZbAXsA
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      The stretched resolution is because it makes people thicker at the expense of FoV, not performance as per se
- nvarsj 6y ago
  I don't know how true this is. Personally I've always noticed significantly more input lag on Linux than Windows for games. I even used to hack on ezquake's Linux port to try and get the input lag down, but the Linux kernel just caused too much latency. This could have changed since then though. You have to realize MS invested significantly in "gaming APIs" like DirectInput, DirectX all tuned to low latency gaming. Linux never really had anything like that. I'd love to see results showing otherwise, I'd far prefer to game in Linux if possible.
fctorial 6y ago
What were the specs of your machine?
- merlinscholz 6y ago
  Ryzen 2700X and a MSI GeForce 1070 TI on a 2k screen

minetest2048 6y ago

I think that the only gaming company that actively improve Linux gaming is only Valve. Compare this to Stadia, where I never see any news on them contributing to the Linux gaming stack

nextaccountic 6y ago
Well.. and Aspyr for porting. And CodeWeavers for employing Wine devs. And Collabora: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/10/collabora-expect-their-linux-kernel-work-for-windows-game-emulation-in-kernel-5-11 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/10/collabora-expect-their...
- minetest2048 6y ago
  Right, I forgot about those Linux porting companies such as Aspyr and Feral Interactive. And Collabora isn't specifically a gaming company, but they and CodeWeavers also helps
  - bicolao 6y ago
    Both Collabora and CodeWeavers collaborate with Valve (and with funding from Valve?) on the gaming front though so it's not wrong to attribute that to Valve (yes CodeWeavers also improves Wine independently, but that's more than just games).
    - ekianjo 6y ago
      Codeweavers is mainly working to support Proton these days, check out this interview from a few days ago: https://boilingsteam.com/podcast-12-with-james-ramey-from-codeweavers/ https://boilingsteam.com/podcast-12-with-james-ramey-from-co...
- ekianjo 6y ago
  Aspyr has not been doing any porting for years. Feral is scaling down their porting as well. Mainly because of Proton: https://boilingsteam.com/proton-the-native-port-killer/ https://boilingsteam.com/proton-the-native-port-killer/

Jnr 6y ago

If I remember correctly, Valve started doing this some time ago as an "insurance policy", when Microsoft spoke about locking down Windows (before they introduced Windows Store). It is amazing to see how far Linux gaming has come since then. 10 years ago almost none of the big games worked, 5 years ago lots of games worked after fiddling with wine config, and now most of the games I have tried work out of the box after enabling Proton. Imagine what will come in the next 5 to 10 years.

ubidubbiiui 6y ago
Call me optimistic, but I imagine a larger amount of "most" work out of the box by then.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  A lot of games now don't work because of anti-cheat technologies. But Valve is working on this with Codeweavers with their refactoring of NTDLL.
  - eptcyka 6y ago
    The most egregious anti-cheat stuff is actually implemented in a windows kernel driver - I'm not optimistic about this being resolved without first party support for Linux.
    - arebhaibhai 6y ago
      Collabora guys are working on just that, FYI.
    - fctorial 6y ago
      > without first party support for Linux. Or for wine
      - eptcyka 6y ago
        It would be quite the undertaking for wine to also emulate not just the Windows userspace but also the whole Windows kernel to allow for the rootkit anti-cheat driver to run.

ricardo81 6y ago

I bought Civ 6 for Linux purely because it was available on Linux. Bought from Steam. It does seem like they're pushing things in the right direction for Linux gaming.

kungtotte 6y ago
One thing that's important for Linux gaming is that games played under Proton on Steam are counted as Linux sales, so publishers and developers get accurate statistics on how many Linux gamers there are. If the market is big enough, cross platform development is viable from the start.
- FrojoS 6y ago
  On the other hand, if the Windows version works fine with Vulcan, why go through the trouble of making a Linux version?
  - imtringued 6y ago
    It's probably easier to develop proton support for a Windows than to port the entire game to Linux.
    - kungtotte 6y ago
      Sure, but my point was that this shows the value in making a game that's easily portable to begin with. This is more for future games rather than converting existing ones.
  - rawfan 6y ago
    True. I've heard some devs are spending at least some time to optimize their games to work better with Proton.
    - fctorial 6y ago
      Wine/proton team could provide tech support service to firms trying to make their application wine compatible.

jpetso 6y ago

I fear what will happen to DirectX-on-Linux if Oracle vs. Google goes in favor of Oracle.

justin66 6y ago

> Valve is doing god’s work when it comes to Linux gaming. I have played over 40 hours of GTA V without many troubles. The game looks great and performs great. So glad I could get rid of my windows install. "I would actually prefer if you didn't play GTA V. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter since you're going to hell anyway. But still." - God

ivanceras 6y ago

I still have input lag experience with GTA V on linux despite using new graphics card. The only immediate solution I've found is to play in windowed mode. All other games are playing nicely (ie: Witcher 3, No man's sky).

loa_in_ 6y ago

They seem to agree that a free OS with an army of enthusiastic geeks ready at all times is at least almost as good for general public (casual gamers) as is MS proprietary garden. If Windows flopped somehow all my friends would have their gaming rigs with most of their games within few days thanks to my experience, and I wouldn't charge more than a few beers.