17 ms·

Let me tell you that most C++ game dev never heard of Rust, so imagine how long it's going to take for Rust to be something usable in that domain? Right now in

by Thaxll 6y ago

Let me tell you that most C++ game dev never heard of Rust, so imagine how long it's going to take for Rust to be something usable in that domain? Right now in the real world of AAA games it is nowhere, it's not even a consideration so calling it "Rust Is the Future of Game Development" right ... For those who don't work in games, the tech there move very slowly, it's not your typical SV "let's use the latest fun and cutting edge tech".

sharpercoder 6y ago
That's a great argument on why it is not present but the future instead.
- emteycz 6y ago
  And also a great opportunity!
- 0-_-0 6y ago
  These are not the only 2 options
an_opabinia 6y ago
Probably because what AAA game developers actually use is strictly Visual Studio, not C++. Whatever is first class for GUI users on Windows in China and Ukraine is going to impact AAA game development far more than any non-GUI technology. It's not really about tooling. I'm not saying tools. Just Visual Studio. Visual Studio decides what will appear.
- malkia 6y ago
  Ditto. Also your debugger of choice (Windows again). I can debug C#/C++ in one app (or other .NET language). It's bit of pain for anything else (granted, Rust, I'm told should be good). Then you have the build process, vendorizing your packages (so you don't fetch them off internet), etc. Right now .sln files and MSBuild rule there (like it or not).
Supermancho 6y ago
> Let me tell you that most C++ game dev never heard of Rust Why would you say that? I have no reason to believe it. C++ and Rust discussions frequently overlap so it's unlikely anyone who uses C++ hasn't heard of it. Game developers, in particular, are exposed to a larger segment of programming languages simply out of necessity. Searching for solutions or functionality will usually lead to esoteric options and the ever-present gamedev talks about how language X solves a portion of your gamedev woes.
- jayd16 6y ago
  If you count Unreal engine game devs then I could see it being true. Many devs script with blueprints or work on art or sound or level design etc. Not every Unreal dev codes with C++ daily.
Impossible 6y ago
There are some AAA game engine and graphics developers actively using Rust in their main codebase like RAD and Embark, and many are Rust curious and using Rust for side projects or tools. It's true that it will be a while before wide Rust adoption happens in the game industry (if ever) and C++ will stay around for a while. As for tech in games moving slowly... there is some truth to that but some things also move much faster than web dev due to new consoles cycles with new hardware capabilities. It will take a LONG time for a SV startup to fully embrace WebGPU even when browser support is decent, on the other hand every AAA game engine has HW raytracing support
- nabakin 6y ago
  Chucklefish, the developer of Starbound, uses Rust too. The lead dev on the project gave a great presentation [1] at RustConf. [1] https://youtu.be/aKLntZcp27M https://youtu.be/aKLntZcp27M
  - steveklabnik 6y ago
    (They did but have since stopped.)
    - Etzos 6y ago
      Do you have any articles or any info on why they decided to stop using Rust? I remember seeing things about them using Rust but never saw anything about them not using it and I'm curious.
      - steveklabnik 6y ago
        They made a few offhand comments on Reddit, but that's it. They decided that having a unified tech stack for the games themselves was worth more than Rust's advantages. Basically, they decided to re-build Witchbrook on top of Wargroove's engine. That being said, I guess I should have put an asterisk on there; they aren't using Rust in game anymore, but they are still (apparently, last we heard) using Rust for server-side components. Wargroove's servers are implemented in Rust.
shmerl 6y ago
C++ developers who never heard of Rust sounds rather strange to me, like they are stranded on some isolated island.
- ncmncm 6y ago
  They have work to do, and tooling to do it with. Show them Rust, and they will say "what can it do that my tooling doesn't?", and then you must be silent.
  - shmerl 6y ago
    It means they aren't curious about progress. Not someone you want to hire, unless those who run projects don't care about anything either. And sure, you can explain to them what better tools can offer. That was the point of the linked post. And if they don't want to hear the answer, then again someone probably hired wrong people there.
    - ncmncm 6y ago
      Game development shops are notoriously cheap. They have to hire people willing to work for peanuts. Like the circus, they take who they can get, from among people who need to be a part of the magic. Meanwhile, game developers, as a rule, are interested in (surprise!) game development, not languages. What Rust brings to the table, few game developers are looking for. But Rust builds are notoriously glacial, where game developers are wedded to the edit-build-test cycle. So, gaming will be one of the last places for Rust to thrive. That doesn't mean no games will be in Rust. Rust coders will compete for jobs using it, rather than game shops competing for Rust coders.
    - ncmncm 6y ago
      Also: you assume you are the arbiter of progress. Not everybody agrees with your assessment. For example: spending an extra hour or three each day, waiting for the compiler, might not seem like progress to everybody. Their assessment is as valid as yours. Furthermore: you assume that people who hire must also agree with you. But, some people who hire want coders coding more and waiting for builds less. That is a legitimate desire.
brundolf 6y ago
"Future" doesn't have to mean "this year"
dxuh 6y ago
If you openly admit in a public internet forum that you use C++, you WILL be reminded that Rust exists and it vastly superior to your choice of tool. I find your statement very questionable and don't personally know any game developer (though I know a good number) that hasn't heard of Rust. So I would like to know if you actually know this from experience or are just guessing.

by Thaxll 6y ago

sharpercoder 6y ago

That's a great argument on why it is not present but the future instead.

emteycz 6y ago
And also a great opportunity!
0-_-0 6y ago
These are not the only 2 options

an_opabinia 6y ago

Probably because what AAA game developers actually use is strictly Visual Studio, not C++. Whatever is first class for GUI users on Windows in China and Ukraine is going to impact AAA game development far more than any non-GUI technology. It's not really about tooling. I'm not saying tools. Just Visual Studio. Visual Studio decides what will appear.

malkia 6y ago
Ditto. Also your debugger of choice (Windows again). I can debug C#/C++ in one app (or other .NET language). It's bit of pain for anything else (granted, Rust, I'm told should be good). Then you have the build process, vendorizing your packages (so you don't fetch them off internet), etc. Right now .sln files and MSBuild rule there (like it or not).

Supermancho 6y ago

> Let me tell you that most C++ game dev never heard of Rust Why would you say that? I have no reason to believe it. C++ and Rust discussions frequently overlap so it's unlikely anyone who uses C++ hasn't heard of it. Game developers, in particular, are exposed to a larger segment of programming languages simply out of necessity. Searching for solutions or functionality will usually lead to esoteric options and the ever-present gamedev talks about how language X solves a portion of your gamedev woes.

jayd16 6y ago
If you count Unreal engine game devs then I could see it being true. Many devs script with blueprints or work on art or sound or level design etc. Not every Unreal dev codes with C++ daily.

Impossible 6y ago

There are some AAA game engine and graphics developers actively using Rust in their main codebase like RAD and Embark, and many are Rust curious and using Rust for side projects or tools. It's true that it will be a while before wide Rust adoption happens in the game industry (if ever) and C++ will stay around for a while. As for tech in games moving slowly... there is some truth to that but some things also move much faster than web dev due to new consoles cycles with new hardware capabilities. It will take a LONG time for a SV startup to fully embrace WebGPU even when browser support is decent, on the other hand every AAA game engine has HW raytracing support

nabakin 6y ago
Chucklefish, the developer of Starbound, uses Rust too. The lead dev on the project gave a great presentation [1] at RustConf. [1] https://youtu.be/aKLntZcp27M https://youtu.be/aKLntZcp27M
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  (They did but have since stopped.)
  - Etzos 6y ago
    Do you have any articles or any info on why they decided to stop using Rust? I remember seeing things about them using Rust but never saw anything about them not using it and I'm curious.
    - steveklabnik 6y ago
      They made a few offhand comments on Reddit, but that's it. They decided that having a unified tech stack for the games themselves was worth more than Rust's advantages. Basically, they decided to re-build Witchbrook on top of Wargroove's engine. That being said, I guess I should have put an asterisk on there; they aren't using Rust in game anymore, but they are still (apparently, last we heard) using Rust for server-side components. Wargroove's servers are implemented in Rust.

shmerl 6y ago

C++ developers who never heard of Rust sounds rather strange to me, like they are stranded on some isolated island.

ncmncm 6y ago
They have work to do, and tooling to do it with. Show them Rust, and they will say "what can it do that my tooling doesn't?", and then you must be silent.
- shmerl 6y ago
  It means they aren't curious about progress. Not someone you want to hire, unless those who run projects don't care about anything either. And sure, you can explain to them what better tools can offer. That was the point of the linked post. And if they don't want to hear the answer, then again someone probably hired wrong people there.
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    Game development shops are notoriously cheap. They have to hire people willing to work for peanuts. Like the circus, they take who they can get, from among people who need to be a part of the magic. Meanwhile, game developers, as a rule, are interested in (surprise!) game development, not languages. What Rust brings to the table, few game developers are looking for. But Rust builds are notoriously glacial, where game developers are wedded to the edit-build-test cycle. So, gaming will be one of the last places for Rust to thrive. That doesn't mean no games will be in Rust. Rust coders will compete for jobs using it, rather than game shops competing for Rust coders.
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    Also: you assume you are the arbiter of progress. Not everybody agrees with your assessment. For example: spending an extra hour or three each day, waiting for the compiler, might not seem like progress to everybody. Their assessment is as valid as yours. Furthermore: you assume that people who hire must also agree with you. But, some people who hire want coders coding more and waiting for builds less. That is a legitimate desire.

brundolf 6y ago

"Future" doesn't have to mean "this year"

dxuh 6y ago

If you openly admit in a public internet forum that you use C++, you WILL be reminded that Rust exists and it vastly superior to your choice of tool. I find your statement very questionable and don't personally know any game developer (though I know a good number) that hasn't heard of Rust. So I would like to know if you actually know this from experience or are just guessing.