5 ms·

What if I just buy my own ink from a third-party supplier at a drastically discounted cost?

by ajay-b 6y ago

judge2020 6y ago
Assuming the cartridges work, go for it, but you might run into DRM/issues using third-party ink.
- Loughla 6y ago
  I can understand (not approve of, but understand) DRM for like your OS, and anything that can install. It is easy to slip up and install malicious software, for non-tech, non-critical-thinking individuals. But DRM on ink? What's the worst that could happen? I ruin the printer I paid for? I ruin the page I'm printing? What's the justification, outside of blind greed?
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
    I would assume the "justification" is something along the lines of "you get poor print quality and then blame it on the printer hurting our brand". You did mention the real reason though.
  - waihtis 6y ago
    In case anyone else was interested what the justification is: 1) Counterfeit cartridges may cause damage to your HP LaserJet printer hardware – which can lead to downtimes of the whole company’s printing infrastructure and disruption of entire workflows. 2) Manufacturing and distributing counterfeit items is illegal. So, buying fakes may bring you and your organization into contact with shady business which may be operated by large-scale criminal syndicates. 3) Counterfeit toner cartridges may alter the printing behavior of your HP printer. When using Original HP toner cartridges, only then can HP printing systems perform within Blue Angel guidelines limits. 4) Due to their often poor print quality and necessary re-prints, counterfeits are likely to waste valuable resources such as paper or energy. Also at the end of life, counterfeits likely don’t get recycled. Directly copy-pasted from https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html
    - NoSorryCannot 6y ago
      The framing of all third-party cartridges as "counterfeits" regardless of whether or not they carry HP trademarks is deliciously dishonest. Buyers getting into difficult relationships with "large-scale criminal syndicates" over discount ink and toner also strains plausibility. Whatever the reality, they've made it so consumers get burned by counterfeits (rendered completely nonfunctional) instead of HP, while conveniently eliminating legitimate competition.
      - waihtis 6y ago
        You know, I was wondering where the italian mob had disappeared to.. I guess we have a clue now?
    - mahoho 6y ago
      I was struck by the poor grammar when I read this, and there's also something that feels vaguely unprofessional about the voice and tone. I'm not sure what that might indicate other than that HP doesn't consider this an important enough PR issue to run it through their best copy editors.
  - frogpelt 6y ago
    Do you remember DRM on K-cups?
  - kuschku 6y ago
    With counterfeit cartridges the printing behaviour may change, leading to the almost-invisible tracking dots on each page that encode the printers serial number, the cartridges serial number, time of day, etc to either become too visible or too invisible. Also, with different ink your printer might print content with a different color profile, so it won't look the same, and it might need to clean the printing heads more often (and the cleaning tech for that is often only designed for a limited amount of uses). But while all these are legitimate reasons, projects like Instant Ink show the true reason is to just turn the printer into a subscription product: buying a printer at a loss, and making a profit with every page printed.
  - pb77 6y ago
    I know on my brother laser printer, when i ran out of toner i bought a new cartridge (3rd party ) from amazon for $10 and have replaced it twice without problems and printed over 2000 pages. Each cartridge lasts about 1500 to 2000 pages. I think argument from HP is pure greed. I don't know if these actions could bleed into the laptops as well. I currently have a HP, would have to look at Dell or something else in the future.
  - numpad0 6y ago
    Color is objectively worse for third party inks, whether it justifies greedy sales tactics, idk
- goldcd 6y ago
  I suspect the carts are 'very' locked down. I just signed up and I'll start getting charged when I insert my special 'instant ink' carts. i.e. The printer (and therefore HP) will know when I've put in the magic ones they've sent me (and they'll send replacements when these are detected as being low). I guess converse should be possible though - if I put in regular commercially bought carts, these shouldn't come off my print total.
masklinn 6y ago
I hope you've already prevented updates from the mothership as carts are not refillable and HP has been locking out third-party carts for a while: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/what-hp-must-do-make-amends-its-self-destructing-printers https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/what-hp-must-do-make-a...
- applecrazy 6y ago
  That should be illegal.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    Instead, circumventing it is illegal.
  - coding123 6y ago
    Isn't running out of ink something that requires a "repair" of the printer... So it should be covered under right to repair.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      This is a theoretical right people are calling for, not any actual right people have right now.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      It should be, but so far this hasn't been successful in court. I'm not sure if it has been tried. Best to write your congressman first. When the laws are clearly success in court is more likely. Right now HP is twisting some legal arguments in a way that holds up to the letter of the law.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    Sorry USA can't hear you over the sound of freedom.
    - amelius 6y ago
dm319 6y ago
I commented about this in the other thread, but the real evil is that the printer works as an IOT device that will order more ink at an even more premium price than official ink from a shop. You can buy your own ink, but then you'll end up with a surplus, and have paid twice.
- goldcd 6y ago
  I don't think it does. It differentiates between 'normal' carts and 'instant ink' carts. I've just signed up, but plan only starts when I put the instant ink carts in. When these run low, they send replacements. If I swapped back to regular carts, then prints wouldn't come off my plan.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    Top tip - you can use a fingernail to swap the little identifier chip. It is just held on with the same kind of glue as holds credit cards to the sheet of paper when you get them in the mail. Then you can use the instant ink for free. People like me are probably the reason they started charging $0.99/month...
    - goldcd 6y ago
      I'm intrigued. Not sure how that gets you free ink though - I presume printer tracks usage in software through what it prints and logs that against the chip to guess what's in the associated cart. So if say I switched the chip on my instant ink cart for a 'regular' chip I won't be charged for printing, but once that cart's empty they won't send me a new one as the 'instant chip' thinks it's unused. Or if I put the instant chip on a regular cart, I'll be charged for printing, but I'll be left with ink in.. nope, can't work it out.
      - londons_explore 6y ago
        Put the insta ink chip on an empty cartridge and tell it to print an alignment/test page from the menu. It uses a tiny LED and light sensor on the print head to see the printed ink on the page during the alignment process. If that sees no ink, it marks the cartridge as empty and orders another. The same will happen if you pull the half-printed paper out of the printer midway through the alignment process, which is how I discovered it.

What if I just buy my own ink from a third-party supplier at a drastically discounted cost?

by ajay-b 6y ago

What if I just buy my own ink from a third-party supplier at a drastically discounted cost?

judge2020 6y ago

Assuming the cartridges work, go for it, but you might run into DRM/issues using third-party ink.

Loughla 6y ago
I can understand (not approve of, but understand) DRM for like your OS, and anything that can install. It is easy to slip up and install malicious software, for non-tech, non-critical-thinking individuals. But DRM on ink? What's the worst that could happen? I ruin the printer I paid for? I ruin the page I'm printing? What's the justification, outside of blind greed?
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
  I would assume the "justification" is something along the lines of "you get poor print quality and then blame it on the printer hurting our brand". You did mention the real reason though.
- waihtis 6y ago
  In case anyone else was interested what the justification is: 1) Counterfeit cartridges may cause damage to your HP LaserJet printer hardware – which can lead to downtimes of the whole company’s printing infrastructure and disruption of entire workflows. 2) Manufacturing and distributing counterfeit items is illegal. So, buying fakes may bring you and your organization into contact with shady business which may be operated by large-scale criminal syndicates. 3) Counterfeit toner cartridges may alter the printing behavior of your HP printer. When using Original HP toner cartridges, only then can HP printing systems perform within Blue Angel guidelines limits. 4) Due to their often poor print quality and necessary re-prints, counterfeits are likely to waste valuable resources such as paper or energy. Also at the end of life, counterfeits likely don’t get recycled. Directly copy-pasted from https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html
  - NoSorryCannot 6y ago
    The framing of all third-party cartridges as "counterfeits" regardless of whether or not they carry HP trademarks is deliciously dishonest. Buyers getting into difficult relationships with "large-scale criminal syndicates" over discount ink and toner also strains plausibility. Whatever the reality, they've made it so consumers get burned by counterfeits (rendered completely nonfunctional) instead of HP, while conveniently eliminating legitimate competition.
    - waihtis 6y ago
      You know, I was wondering where the italian mob had disappeared to.. I guess we have a clue now?
  - mahoho 6y ago
    I was struck by the poor grammar when I read this, and there's also something that feels vaguely unprofessional about the voice and tone. I'm not sure what that might indicate other than that HP doesn't consider this an important enough PR issue to run it through their best copy editors.
- frogpelt 6y ago
  Do you remember DRM on K-cups?
- kuschku 6y ago
  With counterfeit cartridges the printing behaviour may change, leading to the almost-invisible tracking dots on each page that encode the printers serial number, the cartridges serial number, time of day, etc to either become too visible or too invisible. Also, with different ink your printer might print content with a different color profile, so it won't look the same, and it might need to clean the printing heads more often (and the cleaning tech for that is often only designed for a limited amount of uses). But while all these are legitimate reasons, projects like Instant Ink show the true reason is to just turn the printer into a subscription product: buying a printer at a loss, and making a profit with every page printed.
- pb77 6y ago
  I know on my brother laser printer, when i ran out of toner i bought a new cartridge (3rd party ) from amazon for $10 and have replaced it twice without problems and printed over 2000 pages. Each cartridge lasts about 1500 to 2000 pages. I think argument from HP is pure greed. I don't know if these actions could bleed into the laptops as well. I currently have a HP, would have to look at Dell or something else in the future.
- numpad0 6y ago
  Color is objectively worse for third party inks, whether it justifies greedy sales tactics, idk
goldcd 6y ago
I suspect the carts are 'very' locked down. I just signed up and I'll start getting charged when I insert my special 'instant ink' carts. i.e. The printer (and therefore HP) will know when I've put in the magic ones they've sent me (and they'll send replacements when these are detected as being low). I guess converse should be possible though - if I put in regular commercially bought carts, these shouldn't come off my print total.

masklinn 6y ago

I hope you've already prevented updates from the mothership as carts are not refillable and HP has been locking out third-party carts for a while: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/what-hp-must-do-make-amends-its-self-destructing-printers https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/what-hp-must-do-make-a...

applecrazy 6y ago
That should be illegal.
- rbecker 6y ago
  Instead, circumventing it is illegal.
- coding123 6y ago
  Isn't running out of ink something that requires a "repair" of the printer... So it should be covered under right to repair.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    This is a theoretical right people are calling for, not any actual right people have right now.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    It should be, but so far this hasn't been successful in court. I'm not sure if it has been tried. Best to write your congressman first. When the laws are clearly success in court is more likely. Right now HP is twisting some legal arguments in a way that holds up to the letter of the law.
- masklinn 6y ago
  Sorry USA can't hear you over the sound of freedom.
  - amelius 6y ago

dm319 6y ago

I commented about this in the other thread, but the real evil is that the printer works as an IOT device that will order more ink at an even more premium price than official ink from a shop. You can buy your own ink, but then you'll end up with a surplus, and have paid twice.

goldcd 6y ago
I don't think it does. It differentiates between 'normal' carts and 'instant ink' carts. I've just signed up, but plan only starts when I put the instant ink carts in. When these run low, they send replacements. If I swapped back to regular carts, then prints wouldn't come off my plan.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Top tip - you can use a fingernail to swap the little identifier chip. It is just held on with the same kind of glue as holds credit cards to the sheet of paper when you get them in the mail. Then you can use the instant ink for free. People like me are probably the reason they started charging $0.99/month...
  - goldcd 6y ago
    I'm intrigued. Not sure how that gets you free ink though - I presume printer tracks usage in software through what it prints and logs that against the chip to guess what's in the associated cart. So if say I switched the chip on my instant ink cart for a 'regular' chip I won't be charged for printing, but once that cart's empty they won't send me a new one as the 'instant chip' thinks it's unused. Or if I put the instant chip on a regular cart, I'll be charged for printing, but I'll be left with ink in.. nope, can't work it out.
    - londons_explore 6y ago
      Put the insta ink chip on an empty cartridge and tell it to print an alignment/test page from the menu. It uses a tiny LED and light sensor on the print head to see the printed ink on the page during the alignment process. If that sees no ink, it marks the cartridge as empty and orders another. The same will happen if you pull the half-printed paper out of the printer midway through the alignment process, which is how I discovered it.