6 ms·

Just curious, why the reaction towards this and the ones from Russia/China are different ?

shanehoban 6y ago
It's made in Germany IRRC, could be why
refurb 6y ago
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/th...
ripdog 6y ago
Because this is a phase 3 trial, which has not been completed by any other vaccine.
pjc50 6y ago
Trust.
a_humean 6y ago
They have only done phase 1/2 trials and this one is phase 3. Also, people trust US/EU research more. They have not been very forthcoming with data. The data that has been made available has been lacking in detail or has patterns that indicate either fabrication or sloppiness. Both countries appear to be moivated by domestic and geopolitical political purposes. The US has also being doing that, but the medical establishment and regulatory bodies in the US are seen to be more independent of government than in China or Russia. Also, this is a German result, and people trust Germany more.
- ahoka 6y ago
  "Also, this is a German result, and people trust Germany more." Like with the diesel emissions?
  - rossdavidh 6y ago
    If it were just the German corporations we were trusting, this would be relevant. But at this point, while we do not necessarily trust the German government to be nimble, agile, or innovative, they are typically relatively by-the-book, as governments go. Certainly compared to China and Russia.
- captain_price7 6y ago
  > people trust Germany more What people are you talking about here? Western societies or entire world?
vertis 6y ago
I think the Russian ones were approved after 'Phase 2' trials. Which are small scale trials. That's their call if they want to start vaccinating with 'half-tested' vaccines, but it doesn't meet the typical international standards which is usually completing Phase 3 trials. Not sure about the Chinese ones.
aioprisan 6y ago
The Russians and Chinese don't have phase 3 trials with data available to review, they're all phase 1/2.
fuoqi 6y ago
Obviously because of the geopolitical concerns and pride. Truth is the first victim as usual. The Russian vaccine was indeed registered just after the 2nd phase trials, but according to its website the 3rd phase trial has started on August 25 (one month later than for BNT162b2) and involved more than 40k people (effectively the same number). So those who claim that Russian vaccine is only on the 1/2 phase spread an outright lie. Both vaccine have approximately the same speed of development with minor differences between regulation and testing procedures.
- jryle70 6y ago
  > So those who claim that Russian vaccine is only on the 1/2 phase spread an outright lie. Russian vaccine was announced back in August, when it was only on phase 1/2. In contrast phase 3 Pfizer/biontech had been well under way at that time. Russia announced a not fully tested vaccine, proudly called it "Sputnik V". The exact words Putin used when announced it was: "As far as I know, a vaccine against a new coronavirus infection has been registered this morning, for the first time in the world". So geopolitical concerns and pride are correct assessment. No wonder it drew skepticism.
  - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
    Does anyone know if the Russian vaccine is “live,” “deactivated,” or his new RNA type?
    - lbeltrame 6y ago
      Neither. It is made of two replication-deficient human adenoviruses, Ad5 and Ad26, IIRC, which carry part or the entire spike protein (I need to check, I don't remember). One shot is with Ad5, the other with Ad26. This is done because Ad5 is a "known" adenovirus by most population, that means that a sizable fraction has antibodies against it.
    - kolinko 6y ago
      genetically modified adenovirus
andrepd 6y ago
Trust. Russia and China lie through their teeth on everything and anything. It's irrelevant whether or not they are lying in this particular instance: they cannot be trusted.
- fuoqi 6y ago
  As if "the West" and the US in particular don't lie left and right if it helps to promote their agenda. It's a simple matter of who aligns with whom.
  - giomasce 6y ago
    Do you really perceive EU/US having the same level of independence of judges, newspapers and regulation bodies as Russia and China? Do you think that minority parties and voices are accepted to the same degree?
  - frockington1 6y ago
    Try opening a publishing paper in China that runs #NotMyPresident with a picture of Xi. You may find yourself being re-educated somewhere
  - jusssi 6y ago
    "The West" is a bit more restricted in how much they can lie to their own citizens (even with the recent efforts from Mr Trump and Mr Johnson to change that for the worse). Of course, in Mother Russia it is widely believed that everyone lies more or less, and those looking to expose "the truth" generally live dangerously, often with tragic results.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    So "the Earth is round" and "the Earth is flat" is a simple matter of who aligns with whom too?
  - coryfklein 6y ago
    The difference is that placing trust in China/Russia means trusting in a narrative driven by a small group (the ruling elite), while placing trust in "the West" usually refers to the collective knowledge of scientific endeavours that tend to succeed better in a nation more friendly to liberal democracy.
SmokeyHamster 6y ago
Because Russia and China are most of the world's political and economic enemies.
- disown 6y ago
  You have to stop reading propaganda. If we had a vote around the world, russia and china together would win over the "west" by a long shot. It wasn't russia and china brutalizing the world for 500 years. It isn't russia and china destabilizing much of the world today. We have to stop believing that the "west" is the world. It's going to bite us in the end one day. The only thing people around the world like is wealth. As china and russia get wealthier, even that won't matter as much.
rsynnott 6y ago
None of those have announced positive results on a phase 3, have they? In effect, the Russian one is also in phase 3; they kind of pretended it wasn't, but are doing a very limited rollout that is for all practical purposes just a phase 3 trial. Also, this one was developed in Germany and the trial is being run in Germany and the US; people might be forgiven for trusting a combination of the EMA and FDA, who will need to approve this, somewhat more than Putin's one.
code001 6y ago
And from North Korea as well
benchaney 6y ago
This is much farther along than the Russia vaccine. They are also publishing their data publicly. I know they haven’t published this data yet, but they say they are going to, and they have a good track record of doing so.
fairity 6y ago
Does anyone know if Russia/China's vaccine operate using the same mRNA mechanism?
michaelyoshika 6y ago
geopolitical. if russia/china has us military bases, you should have already received their vaccines.

It's made in Germany IRRC, could be why

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/th...

ripdog 6y ago

Because this is a phase 3 trial, which has not been completed by any other vaccine.

pjc50 6y ago

Trust.

a_humean 6y ago

They have only done phase 1/2 trials and this one is phase 3. Also, people trust US/EU research more. They have not been very forthcoming with data. The data that has been made available has been lacking in detail or has patterns that indicate either fabrication or sloppiness. Both countries appear to be moivated by domestic and geopolitical political purposes. The US has also being doing that, but the medical establishment and regulatory bodies in the US are seen to be more independent of government than in China or Russia. Also, this is a German result, and people trust Germany more.

ahoka 6y ago
"Also, this is a German result, and people trust Germany more." Like with the diesel emissions?
- rossdavidh 6y ago
  If it were just the German corporations we were trusting, this would be relevant. But at this point, while we do not necessarily trust the German government to be nimble, agile, or innovative, they are typically relatively by-the-book, as governments go. Certainly compared to China and Russia.
captain_price7 6y ago
> people trust Germany more What people are you talking about here? Western societies or entire world?

vertis 6y ago

I think the Russian ones were approved after 'Phase 2' trials. Which are small scale trials. That's their call if they want to start vaccinating with 'half-tested' vaccines, but it doesn't meet the typical international standards which is usually completing Phase 3 trials. Not sure about the Chinese ones.

aioprisan 6y ago

The Russians and Chinese don't have phase 3 trials with data available to review, they're all phase 1/2.

fuoqi 6y ago

Obviously because of the geopolitical concerns and pride. Truth is the first victim as usual. The Russian vaccine was indeed registered just after the 2nd phase trials, but according to its website the 3rd phase trial has started on August 25 (one month later than for BNT162b2) and involved more than 40k people (effectively the same number). So those who claim that Russian vaccine is only on the 1/2 phase spread an outright lie. Both vaccine have approximately the same speed of development with minor differences between regulation and testing procedures.

jryle70 6y ago
> So those who claim that Russian vaccine is only on the 1/2 phase spread an outright lie. Russian vaccine was announced back in August, when it was only on phase 1/2. In contrast phase 3 Pfizer/biontech had been well under way at that time. Russia announced a not fully tested vaccine, proudly called it "Sputnik V". The exact words Putin used when announced it was: "As far as I know, a vaccine against a new coronavirus infection has been registered this morning, for the first time in the world". So geopolitical concerns and pride are correct assessment. No wonder it drew skepticism.
- Eric_WVGG 6y ago
  Does anyone know if the Russian vaccine is “live,” “deactivated,” or his new RNA type?
  - lbeltrame 6y ago
    Neither. It is made of two replication-deficient human adenoviruses, Ad5 and Ad26, IIRC, which carry part or the entire spike protein (I need to check, I don't remember). One shot is with Ad5, the other with Ad26. This is done because Ad5 is a "known" adenovirus by most population, that means that a sizable fraction has antibodies against it.
  - kolinko 6y ago
    genetically modified adenovirus

andrepd 6y ago

Trust. Russia and China lie through their teeth on everything and anything. It's irrelevant whether or not they are lying in this particular instance: they cannot be trusted.

fuoqi 6y ago
As if "the West" and the US in particular don't lie left and right if it helps to promote their agenda. It's a simple matter of who aligns with whom.
- giomasce 6y ago
  Do you really perceive EU/US having the same level of independence of judges, newspapers and regulation bodies as Russia and China? Do you think that minority parties and voices are accepted to the same degree?
- frockington1 6y ago
  Try opening a publishing paper in China that runs #NotMyPresident with a picture of Xi. You may find yourself being re-educated somewhere
- jusssi 6y ago
  "The West" is a bit more restricted in how much they can lie to their own citizens (even with the recent efforts from Mr Trump and Mr Johnson to change that for the worse). Of course, in Mother Russia it is widely believed that everyone lies more or less, and those looking to expose "the truth" generally live dangerously, often with tragic results.
- rimliu 6y ago
  So "the Earth is round" and "the Earth is flat" is a simple matter of who aligns with whom too?
- coryfklein 6y ago
  The difference is that placing trust in China/Russia means trusting in a narrative driven by a small group (the ruling elite), while placing trust in "the West" usually refers to the collective knowledge of scientific endeavours that tend to succeed better in a nation more friendly to liberal democracy.

SmokeyHamster 6y ago

Because Russia and China are most of the world's political and economic enemies.

disown 6y ago
You have to stop reading propaganda. If we had a vote around the world, russia and china together would win over the "west" by a long shot. It wasn't russia and china brutalizing the world for 500 years. It isn't russia and china destabilizing much of the world today. We have to stop believing that the "west" is the world. It's going to bite us in the end one day. The only thing people around the world like is wealth. As china and russia get wealthier, even that won't matter as much.

rsynnott 6y ago

None of those have announced positive results on a phase 3, have they? In effect, the Russian one is also in phase 3; they kind of pretended it wasn't, but are doing a very limited rollout that is for all practical purposes just a phase 3 trial. Also, this one was developed in Germany and the trial is being run in Germany and the US; people might be forgiven for trusting a combination of the EMA and FDA, who will need to approve this, somewhat more than Putin's one.

code001 6y ago

And from North Korea as well

benchaney 6y ago

This is much farther along than the Russia vaccine. They are also publishing their data publicly. I know they haven’t published this data yet, but they say they are going to, and they have a good track record of doing so.

fairity 6y ago

Does anyone know if Russia/China's vaccine operate using the same mRNA mechanism?

michaelyoshika 6y ago

geopolitical. if russia/china has us military bases, you should have already received their vaccines.