14 ms·

AltStore: An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices

595 points by dariosalvi78 6y ago

yholio 6y ago
Apologies to the author but this seems like a pointless effort. Buyers of iPad/iPhone have renounced by contract their desire to run general purpose software, and have accepted an application jukebox with a vendor-approved catalogue. They do not won own general purpose computers and have not purchased such devices. Just like no-one writes an appstore for the computer in the microwave oven, that has a fixed and very limited fixed set of "apps", it similarly makes no sense to create an alternative appstore for a locked platform.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  I use apple devices because I like receiving security updates after the first year, I also like not having my phone loaded with google spyware. I do not like the inability to sideload apps which makes this tool useful to me. The app store has almost everything I want but its missing stuff I used to sideload on android like an ad free youtube app and the app to send the payload to boot my nintendo switch with homebrew.
core-questions 6y ago
The only downside here is that you have to have a Mac (or some hackintosh, I guess) to do this. Anyone have any idea on the state of the art for running an OSX virtual machine?
- phoe-krk 6y ago
  https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox Pretty bulletproof and automated.
  - Shank 6y ago
    This script seems to include the magic encryption string[0]. I'm surprised that it hasn't been DMCA'd yet. [0]: https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox/blob/master/macos-guest-virtualbox.sh#L670 https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox/blob/master/...
    - phoe-krk 6y ago
      The magic "ourhardworkbythesewordsguardedpleasedontsteal(c)AppleComputerInc" haiku-string is already kind of a meme by now. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589961
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Another cute poem: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8579272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8579272
    - josephcsible 6y ago
      Are they going to DMCA a federal judge's order too? https://www.rcfp.org/wp-content/uploads/imported/20120105_202426_apple_sealing.pdf https://www.rcfp.org/wp-content/uploads/imported/20120105_20...
  - Tepix 6y ago
    Thanks. The page mentions transfering the image to QEMU + KVM with hardware passthrough for good performance. Is there a script or guide on how to set that up?
    - phoe-krk 6y ago
      I have no idea how to do that and I have never attempted this myself.
- saurik 6y ago
  AltStore also supports Windows AFAIK. https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/
  - kevincox 6y ago
    If it works on windows why does it need the server at all? If it is just making requests to Apple can't you do the signing on the phone? (Other than the bootstrap procedure)
    - saurik 6y ago
      You can do the signing on the phone (though there is some nuance here as logging in to the account is hard and the techniques used by AltStore involve injection into other Apple software; this is at least theoretically fixable, but does mean that it wouldn't be trivial), but you can't do the installation from another app on the phone in any obvious way (at least without restricted entitlements). AltStore is acting like Xcode doing over-the-network installs from AltServer (and then also happens to do the signing there, but that's again simply to make it easier to develop it). AltStore is based on the signing code I developed and also used in my Cydia Impactor (which lets you install apps over USB); I actually did develop another tool called Cydia Extender, which would run on your phone, but I dropped the effort when I couldn't get stuff to install on the phone (the technique I came up with relied on an entitlement that was only able to be installed by users with developer accounts; I even somehow failed to notice this until after I released it, which was awkward: I still can't believe I messed up my testing that badly). (Actually... maybe I have a way to pull this off now? It is a long shot, and somewhat risky ;P.)
      - mikeknoop 6y ago
        Could you use a VPN on the device to make a remote server appear as a local server for network installs? If so, could you loop back an on device “server” through a remote proxy?
        saurik 6y ago
- djxfade 6y ago
  No, AltStore has a server for Windows as well
- runjake 6y ago
  You don’t need a Mac. It works on Windows too.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  There's a beta windows version.
bgia 6y ago
This system resigns app with your developer signature, and to work around the expiration leaves a server running on your computer that periodically resigns apps and updates them over the air on your iPhone. I think this is simple yet genius. I wonder if it works on AppleTV as well?
- harikb 6y ago
  Doesn’t the user also need their own Apple Developer account?
  - latchkey 6y ago
    https://altstore.io/faq/ https://altstore.io/faq/ Why do you need my Apple ID? Apple allows anyone with an Apple ID to install apps they’ve built themselves onto their devices for testing. AltStore uses your Apple ID to communicate with Apple's servers on your behalf and perform the necessary steps to prepare your account for installing apps onto your device. Why does it say my apps will expire in 7 days? Unfortunately, apps that have been installed using non-developer Apple IDs (in other words, Apple IDs not tied to a $99/year Apple developer account) are only valid for 7 days, at which point they will no longer open. To compensate for this, AltStore will periodically attempt to refresh your apps in the background, and you can always manually refresh your apps from within AltStore.
    - throw03172019 6y ago
      Interesting. I have no idea this free account rule existed. I have been under the impression you NEED the $99 account to do this.
      - morpheuskafka 6y ago
        Yeah, in fact, if you have the $99 account you don't even really need AltStore, you can just download the IPA files you want and sign them manually (with Xcode or if you want a less clunkly solution, iOSAppSigner or AltDeploy or a tool like that) and they will last for a year, which is certainly not too much of a hassle to have to resign.
maskedinvader 6y ago
This is brilliant workaround, wonder if apple will try taking this down or let this be.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  Hah! I don't wonder. They will probably just find a way to make this not work.
- saurik 6y ago
  Apple keeps adding restrictions to what free developers can do, which makes this less and less viable. They also made a major change to their authentication mechanism for these free developer accounts last year, which (to avoid a lot of reverse engineering of highly obfuscated--and notably "well" obfuscated--Apple code) required a pretty obtuse workaround from AltStore on macOS where it injects into Mail.app as a plug-in... I am shocked Apple hasn't figured out some way to restrict this yet (it could be that it didn't occur to them there is still work to be done upping the ante here?).
  - est31 6y ago
    > required a pretty obtuse workaround from AltStore on macOS where it injects into Mail.app as a plug-in Why are people still putting up with Apple? People who can figure out such tricks are smart. Why are they still customer to a company that has shown to be hostile to the freedom they want to assert? GNU/Linux is getting better by the day.
    - saurik 6y ago
      Because the market of users has macOS (and Windows, where the workaround isn't as "obtuse" as nothing is locking you out of doing it, but is still ridiculous: I think he injects code into iTunes), and apps that don't have users are kind of pointless (if not high quality ;P)? You don't get to choose the platform used by your users, and the people choosing that platform are often doing it for reasons that aren't even necessarily in their own best interests (as they aren't fully informed of the consequences).
gregoriol 6y ago
This will have limitations on notifications and features like icloud sync I guess? And while not very likely as it will be hard to differentiate a real developer from this, Apple could still revoke Apple IDs or developer accounts whenever they want. edit: also no way to have updates suggestion? (an app can be updated, but the AltStore app can't know which app is installed or which version?)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- navanchauhan 6y ago
  I haven’t tested with another app that might have notifications ( I’m only running AltStore and Unc0ver ). AltStore does send regular notifications reminding you if the certificate is about to expire, so that shouldn’t be a problem. I have been using this since it was launched on a free developer account. Prior to this I used the same account with Cydia Impactor too. I personally never got revoked I don’t understand your last point, the AltStore app can be updated through the app itself. Also, there was a feature preview for Patreon subscribers which allowed the user to add repositories to the AltStore app. I haven’t tested this feature but I believe it would be able to tell when an update has come for the apps.
alexashka 6y ago
It's incredible the lengths people will go to to 'hack' the system. It's almost as if we could be living in near paradise if we switch-a-roo-ed existing people in power for the robin hoods who do this kind of thankless work. It makes me think of the people who rip movies and post them online, at the risk of getting caught and suffering who knows what sorts of consequences. What motivates this entire underground network of people who do this? I feel like this should be studied or something - it strikes me as a separate set of morals that these people hold that aren't spelled out anywhere (or are they?) and no matter the number of times the powers that be try to squash them, they seem to pop right back up in one form or another. A leaderless resistance to power hungry assholes or something, so cool :)
- vaccinator 6y ago
  when you are part of the scene, you get access to basically all content... some people probably do it for that reason.
- Marciplan 6y ago
  Riley makes €11K a month via Patreon because of AltStore :) (And deserves double that, of course.)
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    That is a hell of a lot of money. Has AltStore been around that long or did that come from his work on the emulators?
  - saurik 6y ago
    (FWIW, the person--me--who actually developed and maintained all of the open source application signing code that AltStore continues to use was making negative thousands of dollars a month from just hosting AltStore's predecessor, due to... and this is clearly on me... having no revenue model from it, and so had to largely stop working on it and get a "day job" outside of the jailbreak ecosystem. I'm really am OK with Riley making money for the AltServer and Mail.app hacks, but $13k/mo feels somewhat extreme? edit: OK, someone else in a sibling comment to this one noted that he also has emulators as a big part of his Patreon. I'm much happier mentally modelling that the vast majority of the people giving him money are interested in those ;P.)
karmakaze 6y ago
Up until this very moment, I've followed these sorts of developments and do admire the ingenuity to pull it off. I've also been dismissive of greenfield phone platforms as being 'not ready for daily use' without having actually trying them. I'm generally more of a computer user than a 'mobile/phone' one, not spending any time scrolling in social media apps. Perhaps I could live with the sub-par experience of an open/free phone. Good phone and plain text messaging features with a great web browser might get most of the way there. I realized that I only needed apps for work (2FA), Slack/PagerDuty and Spotify--and now working from home don't even need Spotify. Carrying a small old iPhone (or iPod Touch) seems acceptable for a few apps Uber/Lyft, etc. I used to carry an iPod Touch along with my phone and using it felt so great--to have the rest of the world in my pocket rather than a tap away.
- axiosgunnar 6y ago
  I'm sorry to tell you, but Hackernews IS social media.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    clapemoji.png.notsupported.true
  - karmakaze 6y ago
    I'd say it's less direct social media, not generally about people but ideas and things.
jaimex2 6y ago
I give it a week before Apple bully the developer into takedown.
- azar1 6y ago
  It's been around since September 2019.
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Very clever. Don't expect it to last. Apple has "control issues," and I can't see them letting this fly too long.
- _fzslm 6y ago
  It's been a bit more than a year and it's still active. The developer was even granted a Developer Transition Kit for the new Apple Silicon, to test his new apps (despite, AFAIK, only having made apps that aren't available on the App Store). The app also takes advantage of the free 7-day development deployment rule, which is something I can't see Apple being able to change without alienating new devs from their platform. It would also be a bad move, anti-trust wise. It's very, very clever.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    In general, Apple has mostly handed out DTKs to everyone who asks for one.
  - chkaloon 6y ago
    It is cool, but now that it's on HN, it may get enough visibility to attract the Big Apple's attention.
- nickm12 6y ago
  I didn't expect it to last either, but it's been around a while. I eventually dug into this and realized that there is a limit of 3 apps, one of which is AltStore itself. I think the developer is wasting his time, but it's his call. Maybe he's doing it for learning and exposure, but it seems like there must be more valuable and durable projects that would scratch that itch.
- csomar 6y ago
  It's too complicated to get any traction with mainstream users of the iPhone.
- underdeserver 6y ago
  Actually, for Apple, this might just be in the sweet spot of placating techy FOSS people who want more freedom, and being cumbersome enough that almost no one outside this group will use it.
Valkhyr 6y ago
I absolutely love that people work on this kind of stuff, but it all feels like an incredibly hacky workaround (running a server to reinstall an app every 7 days...) for functionality that should really be present out of the box (install whatever software you please on hardware you paid a ton of money for) :-( Apple's insistence on refusing users control of their devices is why I switched to Android for my phone years ago (though I will be overjoyed once GNU/Linux on phones reaches enough maturity to replace Android for me as well, though I sadly don't see that happening very soon). This is truly a shame - I am not part of the extreme FOSS crowd who would only ever be satisfied with a top-to-bottom free device, and in fact I would happily use an iPhone if iOS was even just as "open" as macOS.
- teawrecks 6y ago
  From Apple's POV, a completely unlocked system that allows the user can do anything is like selling a solid cube of untouched marble. It's the default. The Apple ecosystem on the other hand is a completed sculpture. They removed parts to craft a very specific vision. Yes you get less marble, but most people aren't sculptors, and they're not buying it for the marble. They're buying Apple's vision.
  - rStar 6y ago
    >From Apple's POV, a completely unlocked system that allows the user can do anything is like selling a car you can drive on all passable roads. It's the default. The Apple ecosystem on the other hand is a artificially restricted environment. They removed parts like the steering wheel to craft a very specific vision. Yes you get less freedom, but most people aren't technically literate, and they're not buying it for general purpose computing. They're buying Apple's monopolistic, user subjugating vision. Which includes as many ways as possible for Apple to capitalize on their monopoly.
    - _dibly 6y ago
      Is there anything you wanted to contribute, or were you just fishing for upvotes here? There are about a million different ways to make any of the points you made that would actually merit a response, but you really took the ball and ran with it. Do you think anyone is going to read your snarky response to someone who was making a reasonable point and think "this seems like someone who wants to have a conversation"?
phreack 6y ago
A fun fact is that this originated as a way to install the gba4ios emulator (now renamed to Delta). Riley is an awesome dev!
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I believe Delta is an entirely new application ;)
  - phreack 6y ago
    Didn't know that, I'd always thought it was an expansion since it was from the same dev. In any case, still amazing.
marketingPro 6y ago
Soon to be banned... Don't give bad companies money. It's as simple as that.
superdisk 6y ago
This always seemed like such a bizarre Rube Goldberg machine to me, it blows my mind that anyone is using it at all.
- nickm12 6y ago
  Is anyone using it? It gets posted on Hacker News from time to time, but it's not clear it's gotten any traction.
  - teetertater 6y ago
    It's pretty popular in the jailbreak community
siraben 6y ago
Considering that iSH is about to be removed from the App Store[0] and that the beta can only hold 10,000 people[1], using AltStore is one of the easiest ways to get iSH on iOS now. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 [1] iSH Discord server
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Better source: https://developer.apple.com/testflight/ https://developer.apple.com/testflight/
Tepix 6y ago
Nice hack. Is there a ad-blocking youtube app i could use with this?
- dotdi 6y ago
  Came here hoping for something like NewPipe or Youtube Vanced. The amounts of ads are getting quite ridiculous, frankly.
- teetertater 6y ago
  Yes! I've used Youtube++ and Cercube prior to jailbreaking There are more (some are jailbreak tweaks) discussed here: https://reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/jol3vk/question_whats_the_best_youtube_tweak_at_the/ https://reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/jol3vk/question_what...
timwis 6y ago
Trying to decide whether to use this - is there a list of apps that I will be able to install when I use this?
- teetertater 6y ago
  I think by default Altstore comes with game emulators and jailbreak apps, with the ability to modify it so you can install any app. It may have changed as I tried it several months ago. With the extension (may be native by now, idk) You can install pretty much any app as long as you can obtain an ipa. They're not too hard to obtain from 3rd party sites. Also easy to pirate paid apps this way
pers0n 6y ago
Don't you have to pay $100 for an App Developer license to be able to really use this?
pers0n 6y ago
I hope they support Raspberry Pi someday. I have one running Pi-Hole (it has other stuff installed, but not running) and it has plenty of resources left over.

595 points by dariosalvi78 6y ago

Apologies to the author but this seems like a pointless effort. Buyers of iPad/iPhone have renounced by contract their desire to run general purpose software, and have accepted an application jukebox with a vendor-approved catalogue. They do not won own general purpose computers and have not purchased such devices. Just like no-one writes an appstore for the computer in the microwave oven, that has a fixed and very limited fixed set of "apps", it similarly makes no sense to create an alternative appstore for a locked platform.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
I use apple devices because I like receiving security updates after the first year, I also like not having my phone loaded with google spyware. I do not like the inability to sideload apps which makes this tool useful to me. The app store has almost everything I want but its missing stuff I used to sideload on android like an ad free youtube app and the app to send the payload to boot my nintendo switch with homebrew.

core-questions 6y ago

The only downside here is that you have to have a Mac (or some hackintosh, I guess) to do this. Anyone have any idea on the state of the art for running an OSX virtual machine?

phoe-krk 6y ago
https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox Pretty bulletproof and automated.
- Shank 6y ago
  This script seems to include the magic encryption string[0]. I'm surprised that it hasn't been DMCA'd yet. [0]: https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox/blob/master/macos-guest-virtualbox.sh#L670 https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox/blob/master/...
  - phoe-krk 6y ago
    The magic "ourhardworkbythesewordsguardedpleasedontsteal(c)AppleComputerInc" haiku-string is already kind of a meme by now. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589961
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Another cute poem: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8579272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8579272
  - josephcsible 6y ago
    Are they going to DMCA a federal judge's order too? https://www.rcfp.org/wp-content/uploads/imported/20120105_202426_apple_sealing.pdf https://www.rcfp.org/wp-content/uploads/imported/20120105_20...
- Tepix 6y ago
  Thanks. The page mentions transfering the image to QEMU + KVM with hardware passthrough for good performance. Is there a script or guide on how to set that up?
  - phoe-krk 6y ago
    I have no idea how to do that and I have never attempted this myself.
saurik 6y ago
AltStore also supports Windows AFAIK. https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/
- kevincox 6y ago
  If it works on windows why does it need the server at all? If it is just making requests to Apple can't you do the signing on the phone? (Other than the bootstrap procedure)
  - saurik 6y ago
    You can do the signing on the phone (though there is some nuance here as logging in to the account is hard and the techniques used by AltStore involve injection into other Apple software; this is at least theoretically fixable, but does mean that it wouldn't be trivial), but you can't do the installation from another app on the phone in any obvious way (at least without restricted entitlements). AltStore is acting like Xcode doing over-the-network installs from AltServer (and then also happens to do the signing there, but that's again simply to make it easier to develop it). AltStore is based on the signing code I developed and also used in my Cydia Impactor (which lets you install apps over USB); I actually did develop another tool called Cydia Extender, which would run on your phone, but I dropped the effort when I couldn't get stuff to install on the phone (the technique I came up with relied on an entitlement that was only able to be installed by users with developer accounts; I even somehow failed to notice this until after I released it, which was awkward: I still can't believe I messed up my testing that badly). (Actually... maybe I have a way to pull this off now? It is a long shot, and somewhat risky ;P.)
    - mikeknoop 6y ago
      Could you use a VPN on the device to make a remote server appear as a local server for network installs? If so, could you loop back an on device “server” through a remote proxy?
      - saurik 6y ago
djxfade 6y ago
No, AltStore has a server for Windows as well
runjake 6y ago
You don’t need a Mac. It works on Windows too.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
There's a beta windows version.

bgia 6y ago

This system resigns app with your developer signature, and to work around the expiration leaves a server running on your computer that periodically resigns apps and updates them over the air on your iPhone. I think this is simple yet genius. I wonder if it works on AppleTV as well?

harikb 6y ago
Doesn’t the user also need their own Apple Developer account?
- latchkey 6y ago
  https://altstore.io/faq/ https://altstore.io/faq/ Why do you need my Apple ID? Apple allows anyone with an Apple ID to install apps they’ve built themselves onto their devices for testing. AltStore uses your Apple ID to communicate with Apple's servers on your behalf and perform the necessary steps to prepare your account for installing apps onto your device. Why does it say my apps will expire in 7 days? Unfortunately, apps that have been installed using non-developer Apple IDs (in other words, Apple IDs not tied to a $99/year Apple developer account) are only valid for 7 days, at which point they will no longer open. To compensate for this, AltStore will periodically attempt to refresh your apps in the background, and you can always manually refresh your apps from within AltStore.
  - throw03172019 6y ago
    Interesting. I have no idea this free account rule existed. I have been under the impression you NEED the $99 account to do this.
    - morpheuskafka 6y ago
      Yeah, in fact, if you have the $99 account you don't even really need AltStore, you can just download the IPA files you want and sign them manually (with Xcode or if you want a less clunkly solution, iOSAppSigner or AltDeploy or a tool like that) and they will last for a year, which is certainly not too much of a hassle to have to resign.

maskedinvader 6y ago

This is brilliant workaround, wonder if apple will try taking this down or let this be.

gameswithgo 6y ago
Hah! I don't wonder. They will probably just find a way to make this not work.
saurik 6y ago
Apple keeps adding restrictions to what free developers can do, which makes this less and less viable. They also made a major change to their authentication mechanism for these free developer accounts last year, which (to avoid a lot of reverse engineering of highly obfuscated--and notably "well" obfuscated--Apple code) required a pretty obtuse workaround from AltStore on macOS where it injects into Mail.app as a plug-in... I am shocked Apple hasn't figured out some way to restrict this yet (it could be that it didn't occur to them there is still work to be done upping the ante here?).
- est31 6y ago
  > required a pretty obtuse workaround from AltStore on macOS where it injects into Mail.app as a plug-in Why are people still putting up with Apple? People who can figure out such tricks are smart. Why are they still customer to a company that has shown to be hostile to the freedom they want to assert? GNU/Linux is getting better by the day.
  - saurik 6y ago
    Because the market of users has macOS (and Windows, where the workaround isn't as "obtuse" as nothing is locking you out of doing it, but is still ridiculous: I think he injects code into iTunes), and apps that don't have users are kind of pointless (if not high quality ;P)? You don't get to choose the platform used by your users, and the people choosing that platform are often doing it for reasons that aren't even necessarily in their own best interests (as they aren't fully informed of the consequences).

gregoriol 6y ago

This will have limitations on notifications and features like icloud sync I guess? And while not very likely as it will be hard to differentiate a real developer from this, Apple could still revoke Apple IDs or developer accounts whenever they want. edit: also no way to have updates suggestion? (an app can be updated, but the AltStore app can't know which app is installed or which version?)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
navanchauhan 6y ago
I haven’t tested with another app that might have notifications ( I’m only running AltStore and Unc0ver ). AltStore does send regular notifications reminding you if the certificate is about to expire, so that shouldn’t be a problem. I have been using this since it was launched on a free developer account. Prior to this I used the same account with Cydia Impactor too. I personally never got revoked I don’t understand your last point, the AltStore app can be updated through the app itself. Also, there was a feature preview for Patreon subscribers which allowed the user to add repositories to the AltStore app. I haven’t tested this feature but I believe it would be able to tell when an update has come for the apps.

alexashka 6y ago

It's incredible the lengths people will go to to 'hack' the system. It's almost as if we could be living in near paradise if we switch-a-roo-ed existing people in power for the robin hoods who do this kind of thankless work. It makes me think of the people who rip movies and post them online, at the risk of getting caught and suffering who knows what sorts of consequences. What motivates this entire underground network of people who do this? I feel like this should be studied or something - it strikes me as a separate set of morals that these people hold that aren't spelled out anywhere (or are they?) and no matter the number of times the powers that be try to squash them, they seem to pop right back up in one form or another. A leaderless resistance to power hungry assholes or something, so cool :)

vaccinator 6y ago
when you are part of the scene, you get access to basically all content... some people probably do it for that reason.
Marciplan 6y ago
Riley makes €11K a month via Patreon because of AltStore :) (And deserves double that, of course.)
- brailsafe 6y ago
  That is a hell of a lot of money. Has AltStore been around that long or did that come from his work on the emulators?
- saurik 6y ago
  (FWIW, the person--me--who actually developed and maintained all of the open source application signing code that AltStore continues to use was making negative thousands of dollars a month from just hosting AltStore's predecessor, due to... and this is clearly on me... having no revenue model from it, and so had to largely stop working on it and get a "day job" outside of the jailbreak ecosystem. I'm really am OK with Riley making money for the AltServer and Mail.app hacks, but $13k/mo feels somewhat extreme? edit: OK, someone else in a sibling comment to this one noted that he also has emulators as a big part of his Patreon. I'm much happier mentally modelling that the vast majority of the people giving him money are interested in those ;P.)

karmakaze 6y ago

Up until this very moment, I've followed these sorts of developments and do admire the ingenuity to pull it off. I've also been dismissive of greenfield phone platforms as being 'not ready for daily use' without having actually trying them. I'm generally more of a computer user than a 'mobile/phone' one, not spending any time scrolling in social media apps. Perhaps I could live with the sub-par experience of an open/free phone. Good phone and plain text messaging features with a great web browser might get most of the way there. I realized that I only needed apps for work (2FA), Slack/PagerDuty and Spotify--and now working from home don't even need Spotify. Carrying a small old iPhone (or iPod Touch) seems acceptable for a few apps Uber/Lyft, etc. I used to carry an iPod Touch along with my phone and using it felt so great--to have the rest of the world in my pocket rather than a tap away.

axiosgunnar 6y ago
I'm sorry to tell you, but Hackernews IS social media.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  clapemoji.png.notsupported.true
- karmakaze 6y ago
  I'd say it's less direct social media, not generally about people but ideas and things.

jaimex2 6y ago

I give it a week before Apple bully the developer into takedown.

azar1 6y ago
It's been around since September 2019.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

Very clever. Don't expect it to last. Apple has "control issues," and I can't see them letting this fly too long.

_fzslm 6y ago
It's been a bit more than a year and it's still active. The developer was even granted a Developer Transition Kit for the new Apple Silicon, to test his new apps (despite, AFAIK, only having made apps that aren't available on the App Store). The app also takes advantage of the free 7-day development deployment rule, which is something I can't see Apple being able to change without alienating new devs from their platform. It would also be a bad move, anti-trust wise. It's very, very clever.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  In general, Apple has mostly handed out DTKs to everyone who asks for one.
- chkaloon 6y ago
  It is cool, but now that it's on HN, it may get enough visibility to attract the Big Apple's attention.
nickm12 6y ago
I didn't expect it to last either, but it's been around a while. I eventually dug into this and realized that there is a limit of 3 apps, one of which is AltStore itself. I think the developer is wasting his time, but it's his call. Maybe he's doing it for learning and exposure, but it seems like there must be more valuable and durable projects that would scratch that itch.
csomar 6y ago
It's too complicated to get any traction with mainstream users of the iPhone.
underdeserver 6y ago
Actually, for Apple, this might just be in the sweet spot of placating techy FOSS people who want more freedom, and being cumbersome enough that almost no one outside this group will use it.

Valkhyr 6y ago

I absolutely love that people work on this kind of stuff, but it all feels like an incredibly hacky workaround (running a server to reinstall an app every 7 days...) for functionality that should really be present out of the box (install whatever software you please on hardware you paid a ton of money for) :-( Apple's insistence on refusing users control of their devices is why I switched to Android for my phone years ago (though I will be overjoyed once GNU/Linux on phones reaches enough maturity to replace Android for me as well, though I sadly don't see that happening very soon). This is truly a shame - I am not part of the extreme FOSS crowd who would only ever be satisfied with a top-to-bottom free device, and in fact I would happily use an iPhone if iOS was even just as "open" as macOS.

teawrecks 6y ago
From Apple's POV, a completely unlocked system that allows the user can do anything is like selling a solid cube of untouched marble. It's the default. The Apple ecosystem on the other hand is a completed sculpture. They removed parts to craft a very specific vision. Yes you get less marble, but most people aren't sculptors, and they're not buying it for the marble. They're buying Apple's vision.
- rStar 6y ago
  >From Apple's POV, a completely unlocked system that allows the user can do anything is like selling a car you can drive on all passable roads. It's the default. The Apple ecosystem on the other hand is a artificially restricted environment. They removed parts like the steering wheel to craft a very specific vision. Yes you get less freedom, but most people aren't technically literate, and they're not buying it for general purpose computing. They're buying Apple's monopolistic, user subjugating vision. Which includes as many ways as possible for Apple to capitalize on their monopoly.
  - _dibly 6y ago
    Is there anything you wanted to contribute, or were you just fishing for upvotes here? There are about a million different ways to make any of the points you made that would actually merit a response, but you really took the ball and ran with it. Do you think anyone is going to read your snarky response to someone who was making a reasonable point and think "this seems like someone who wants to have a conversation"?

phreack 6y ago

A fun fact is that this originated as a way to install the gba4ios emulator (now renamed to Delta). Riley is an awesome dev!

saagarjha 6y ago
I believe Delta is an entirely new application ;)
- phreack 6y ago
  Didn't know that, I'd always thought it was an expansion since it was from the same dev. In any case, still amazing.

marketingPro 6y ago

Soon to be banned... Don't give bad companies money. It's as simple as that.

superdisk 6y ago

This always seemed like such a bizarre Rube Goldberg machine to me, it blows my mind that anyone is using it at all.

nickm12 6y ago
Is anyone using it? It gets posted on Hacker News from time to time, but it's not clear it's gotten any traction.
- teetertater 6y ago
  It's pretty popular in the jailbreak community

siraben 6y ago

Considering that iSH is about to be removed from the App Store[0] and that the beta can only hold 10,000 people[1], using AltStore is one of the easiest ways to get iSH on iOS now. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 [1] iSH Discord server

saagarjha 6y ago
Better source: https://developer.apple.com/testflight/ https://developer.apple.com/testflight/

Tepix 6y ago

Nice hack. Is there a ad-blocking youtube app i could use with this?

dotdi 6y ago
Came here hoping for something like NewPipe or Youtube Vanced. The amounts of ads are getting quite ridiculous, frankly.
teetertater 6y ago
Yes! I've used Youtube++ and Cercube prior to jailbreaking There are more (some are jailbreak tweaks) discussed here: https://reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/jol3vk/question_whats_the_best_youtube_tweak_at_the/ https://reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/jol3vk/question_what...

timwis 6y ago

Trying to decide whether to use this - is there a list of apps that I will be able to install when I use this?

teetertater 6y ago
I think by default Altstore comes with game emulators and jailbreak apps, with the ability to modify it so you can install any app. It may have changed as I tried it several months ago. With the extension (may be native by now, idk) You can install pretty much any app as long as you can obtain an ipa. They're not too hard to obtain from 3rd party sites. Also easy to pirate paid apps this way

pers0n 6y ago

Don't you have to pay $100 for an App Developer license to be able to really use this?

pers0n 6y ago

I hope they support Raspberry Pi someday. I have one running Pi-Hole (it has other stuff installed, but not running) and it has plenty of resources left over.