5 ms·

Trump lost support among whites and gained support among black, latino, asian voters [1]. Whatever it is that is going on is not as simple as you make it sound.

by creato 6y ago

Trump lost support among whites and gained support among black, latino, asian voters [1]. Whatever it is that is going on is not as simple as you make it sound. Personally, I think Democrats need to simply stop talking as much about race and gender. Trump being an asshole about the topic doesn't mean that people care. Most people don't want to hear it. As another example, CA prop 16 was also voted down, in a minority-majority state. 1. https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-scrambling-of-democrats-and-republicans-traditional-bases/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-sc...

tashoecraft 6y ago
Democrats have been very bad at elections. This election shouldn’t have been this close. Nothing changes the issues with Trump. People looked at Trump as a candidate and decided to vote for him regardless of all those things about him, and for that they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.
- salawat 6y ago
  >they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen. Incorrect from their point of view. They saw him as a lesser threat to stability through his policy decisions. I know, because I asked. Further, it is hard to argue with the results when you had Democrat cities getting burnt to the ground and there being no effort put into curtailing it which philosophy of leadership would genuinely lead to a safer polis. In fact, many of them voted that way, because they thought it was better for the country. Demonization and dehumanization of the other side gets you either nowhere, or in an increasingly bad place. I strongly advise against it.
  - vharuck 6y ago
    >Democrat cities Large cities usually lean Democratic. This is like saying "cities run by male mayors." It's the statistical reality, but not necessarily related.
  - mtnGoat 6y ago
    Which city burned to the ground?
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
NYTimes gives a much better overview of who voted for whom by demographics: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/... Trump getting 12% of the black vote in 2020 is up from the 8% he did in in 2016. That sounds like going from really low to not as but still really low. I don’t think Democrats would be taking so much about race and gender if Trump wasn’t dog whistling so much.
- sfblah 6y ago
  I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities? Seems like that could explain him getting more votes, by more actively pushing back against it.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities? The activist wing was defeated in the primary, and wasn't an option they were presented with. Many blacks are not supportive of the centrist wing and it's devotion to the interests of corporate capital and it near-total-absence of a working-class message, which, when it's the only thing around, makes right-wing economic populism, which does center around working class economic messaging (even if those of us on the progressive side might see it as both an ineffective platform if genuinely pursued, and much of it also a dishonest mirage being dangled as a manipulation strategy), if not exactly attractive—especially when visibly associated with virulent, violent racism—possibly seem the lesser near-term evil.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    Obviously, or he wouldn’t have gotten 12% of their vote. In 2016, he got a statistical 0% of the black female vote (not sure about 2020), so that percent is probably a lot higher for black males (eg 24% if he got 0% of their vote again this year). I’m not sure what to make of that. Edit: according to https://www.vox.com/2020/11/7/21551364/white-trump-voters-2020 https://www.vox.com/2020/11/7/21551364/white-trump-voters-20... Trump gained 4 points each for the black male and female vote, that would put him somewhere around 16, though I’m not sure what that article’s basis was. Still, those are starting from really low numbers to begin with, a lot of it could just be noise.
cambalache 6y ago
As non-white person I find the average white liberal MORE racist than your stereotypical redneck/Trump Follower.The last one is in your face, but most of the time the racism comes from ignorance or fear, cure them and you will go a long way to diminish it. The white liberal is way different, they see themselves basically as a superior person, the summit of human ethical achievement. They interject themselves into minority problems to show how much "they care" but 99% the acts are only to "virtue-signal", when push come to shove they will quickly align with any policy that makes their life easier, no matter the impact on the world. More insidiously, the supposed tolerance and open-mindeness are very quickly thrown out of the window once a minority sub-group fail to align to their worldview. See for example the vitriolic insults received by Cubans/Venezuelans in Florida just because they "dared" to vote for Trump. If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd.
- learc83 6y ago
  >If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd. Since you don’t live in America, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and you should stop talking like you do.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    The world is big my friend, I dont live in America but I do know plenty of Americans. Your comment reinforce my point instead of refuting it.
    - learc83 6y ago
      I'm sorry but you still have no idea what you're talking about. 'I know some Americans' doesn't cut it. Unless you've lived in Trump country for a while there's no way you've met enough hard core Trump supporting rednecks to make any kind of accurate generalization about them. >Your comment reinforce my point instead of refuting it. I live in one of the reddest states in the nation and come from a family full of those Alabama rednecks you talk about, and I voted Republican in every election before 2016. If you think I represent the liberal elite, you're dead wrong. Good luck trying to get along with the rednecks you're talking about. Most of them don't want you here, and if they had their preferred immigration policy you wouldn't be allowed in. Many of the family members I talked about wouldn't even allow you to marry a person outside your race, and they'd prefer if schools were still segregated. Though they'd never say that to an outsider's face. And the majority of them outright support requiring Muslims to register with the government so they can be tracked. This has nothing to do with the South btw, it's more of an urban rural divide.

by creato 6y ago

tashoecraft 6y ago

Democrats have been very bad at elections. This election shouldn’t have been this close. Nothing changes the issues with Trump. People looked at Trump as a candidate and decided to vote for him regardless of all those things about him, and for that they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.

salawat 6y ago
>they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen. Incorrect from their point of view. They saw him as a lesser threat to stability through his policy decisions. I know, because I asked. Further, it is hard to argue with the results when you had Democrat cities getting burnt to the ground and there being no effort put into curtailing it which philosophy of leadership would genuinely lead to a safer polis. In fact, many of them voted that way, because they thought it was better for the country. Demonization and dehumanization of the other side gets you either nowhere, or in an increasingly bad place. I strongly advise against it.
- vharuck 6y ago
  >Democrat cities Large cities usually lean Democratic. This is like saying "cities run by male mayors." It's the statistical reality, but not necessarily related.
- mtnGoat 6y ago
  Which city burned to the ground?

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

NYTimes gives a much better overview of who voted for whom by demographics: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/... Trump getting 12% of the black vote in 2020 is up from the 8% he did in in 2016. That sounds like going from really low to not as but still really low. I don’t think Democrats would be taking so much about race and gender if Trump wasn’t dog whistling so much.

sfblah 6y ago
I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities? Seems like that could explain him getting more votes, by more actively pushing back against it.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities? The activist wing was defeated in the primary, and wasn't an option they were presented with. Many blacks are not supportive of the centrist wing and it's devotion to the interests of corporate capital and it near-total-absence of a working-class message, which, when it's the only thing around, makes right-wing economic populism, which does center around working class economic messaging (even if those of us on the progressive side might see it as both an ineffective platform if genuinely pursued, and much of it also a dishonest mirage being dangled as a manipulation strategy), if not exactly attractive—especially when visibly associated with virulent, violent racism—possibly seem the lesser near-term evil.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  Obviously, or he wouldn’t have gotten 12% of their vote. In 2016, he got a statistical 0% of the black female vote (not sure about 2020), so that percent is probably a lot higher for black males (eg 24% if he got 0% of their vote again this year). I’m not sure what to make of that. Edit: according to https://www.vox.com/2020/11/7/21551364/white-trump-voters-2020 https://www.vox.com/2020/11/7/21551364/white-trump-voters-20... Trump gained 4 points each for the black male and female vote, that would put him somewhere around 16, though I’m not sure what that article’s basis was. Still, those are starting from really low numbers to begin with, a lot of it could just be noise.

cambalache 6y ago

As non-white person I find the average white liberal MORE racist than your stereotypical redneck/Trump Follower.The last one is in your face, but most of the time the racism comes from ignorance or fear, cure them and you will go a long way to diminish it. The white liberal is way different, they see themselves basically as a superior person, the summit of human ethical achievement. They interject themselves into minority problems to show how much "they care" but 99% the acts are only to "virtue-signal", when push come to shove they will quickly align with any policy that makes their life easier, no matter the impact on the world. More insidiously, the supposed tolerance and open-mindeness are very quickly thrown out of the window once a minority sub-group fail to align to their worldview. See for example the vitriolic insults received by Cubans/Venezuelans in Florida just because they "dared" to vote for Trump. If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd.

learc83 6y ago
>If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd. Since you don’t live in America, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and you should stop talking like you do.
- cambalache 6y ago
  The world is big my friend, I dont live in America but I do know plenty of Americans. Your comment reinforce my point instead of refuting it.
  - learc83 6y ago
    I'm sorry but you still have no idea what you're talking about. 'I know some Americans' doesn't cut it. Unless you've lived in Trump country for a while there's no way you've met enough hard core Trump supporting rednecks to make any kind of accurate generalization about them. >Your comment reinforce my point instead of refuting it. I live in one of the reddest states in the nation and come from a family full of those Alabama rednecks you talk about, and I voted Republican in every election before 2016. If you think I represent the liberal elite, you're dead wrong. Good luck trying to get along with the rednecks you're talking about. Most of them don't want you here, and if they had their preferred immigration policy you wouldn't be allowed in. Many of the family members I talked about wouldn't even allow you to marry a person outside your race, and they'd prefer if schools were still segregated. Though they'd never say that to an outsider's face. And the majority of them outright support requiring Muslims to register with the government so they can be tracked. This has nothing to do with the South btw, it's more of an urban rural divide.