8 ms·

>Every time you gloss over this, you give a pass to it and to those who knew about it and supported him anyway. I feel this unique cherry picking of obviously

>Every time you gloss over this, you give a pass to it and to those who knew about it and supported him anyway. I feel this unique cherry picking of obviously terrible stances by President Trump is used to undermine so many trump supporters who chose to vote for him for a myriad of reasons. Its discouraging to see

pcbro141 6y ago
The point is it should be a disqualifier. There is nothing that can convince me to vote for a person who endorses white supremacists. I cannot compromise on equal rights for all humans.
- trumpaway 6y ago
  He disavowed white supremacists, KKK, Proud Boys, etc. several times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd0cMmBvqWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd0cMmBvqWc (4:10 is him denouncing Proud Boys, for example) https://streamable.com/sr9o2s https://streamable.com/sr9o2s
  - knodi123 6y ago
    yes, certainly he did. He also refused to. He takes both sides of lots of issues. You could make a page-a-day calendar out of quotes where he has taken opposite sides on an issue. It's a strategic decision, and it's very effective. The white nationalists can look at what he says and say "ah, he wants us to stand by. Sure, later he'll disavow us, but I got the message. wink wink." And then the people who oppose white nationalism can say "see, he disavowed it, so that clarifies everything - nothing he said before meant what it sounded like."
epistasis 6y ago
This is not mere cherry picking, these are actual statements, far outside the norm of any other politician at the national stage, that have resulted in violence and even death in the United States. How can you be discouraged by acknowledging the full spectrum of what this president has encouraged? What are you willing to sweep under the rug to white wash clearly bad behavior?
jorl17 6y ago
What I fail to understand, as a foreigner, is how someone can vote for a president who is an outright liar. Look no further than his last tweets as of right now. He is denying that he has lost and is insisting that there are illegal things happening (I'm not saying there aren't, but I will go the extra mile and say he has lost it and that only a manchild would say otherwise -- this manchild). I could not go to bed with a clear mind knowing that I voted for a lying disgusting piece of trash, even if that meant that I was voting for the one whose policies I "agreed with the most". I guess I _get_ it if you view politics as sports. Sports fans (in the EU) will support their club to death. The president of a football club can be corrupt and they will still probably back them so that they can back the club. In both cases, these are twisted, unhealthy stances. I really cannot fathom how so many Americans can vote for this piece of trash human being. I don't think all these people are bigots, racists or idiots; I simply cannot understand how someone can be comfortable with having a piece of shit as the face of the country. I used to love America and the idea of going to it. I used to think it was lead by hardworking (albeit maybe _too_ hardworking) people. I used to think that maybe healthcare wasn't "that" important because it was _AMERICA_. I can't think like that anymore because a very significant part of the country chooses to be portrayed by an _objectively and openly racist, sexist bigot_. Heck, I think I'm right leaning on most stuff in life, but I could never ever carry a straight face knowing I contributed to this disaster. I would rather vote blank (I'm a strong believer in doing just that), against the system, than vote "for" a pig so as to not "vote" for the opposition (a typical argument used by trump "non-supporters who vote for him"). At least the opposition wouldn't put America to shame in such a magnitude. In my country America is now used as an example of what not to be, what not to do. We tolerate its undeniable leadership in the world; we no longer worship it or look at it as somewhat of a better society. It used to be the other way around. What happened, America?
- presentation 6y ago
  US politics is structurally messed up and there will be more escalating drama in the coming years/decades that will definitely leak internationally. With mechanical issues like the electoral college being deeply flawed, to more innate issues of the system like the two party system reducing the entirety of politics in the USA to an adversarial binary, it will just get more polarized and ensure the disenfranchisement of even more people than now. This is a minor win in a sinking ship, IMO.
gisely 6y ago
Our president not only condones white supremacist groups but dreams about harness their hate and violence. If noticing the somehow undermines Trump supporters that’s not cherrypicking it’s justice.
tashoecraft 6y ago
If you chose to vote for Trump because of his economic policies and the benefits it would get you, you chose money over the safety of your fellow citizens. You felt your fellow non white citizens were less important than your 401k. That when white nationalists were chanting “Jews will not replace us” and the president would not condemn them you stood by him. There is a massive list of horrible things this president has done. Many acts of fraud through out his entire life. An open child rape court case. Through all of this they have supported him. It’s not one cherry picked example. Trump supporters have nothing to hold up anymore. If you are one, look yourself in the mirror and say “I have been a terrible human being and American citizen, but I will work to be better”. Trump supporters don’t deserve sympathy or respect. Trump supporting republicans need to earn that.
- creato 6y ago
  Trump lost support among whites and gained support among black, latino, asian voters [1]. Whatever it is that is going on is not as simple as you make it sound. Personally, I think Democrats need to simply stop talking as much about race and gender. Trump being an asshole about the topic doesn't mean that people care. Most people don't want to hear it. As another example, CA prop 16 was also voted down, in a minority-majority state. 1. https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-scrambling-of-democrats-and-republicans-traditional-bases/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-sc...
  - tashoecraft 6y ago
    Democrats have been very bad at elections. This election shouldn’t have been this close. Nothing changes the issues with Trump. People looked at Trump as a candidate and decided to vote for him regardless of all those things about him, and for that they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.
    - salawat 6y ago
      >they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen. Incorrect from their point of view. They saw him as a lesser threat to stability through his policy decisions. I know, because I asked. Further, it is hard to argue with the results when you had Democrat cities getting burnt to the ground and there being no effort put into curtailing it which philosophy of leadership would genuinely lead to a safer polis. In fact, many of them voted that way, because they thought it was better for the country. Demonization and dehumanization of the other side gets you either nowhere, or in an increasingly bad place. I strongly advise against it.
xlm1717 6y ago
This whole comment thread shows divisions won't be going away anytime soon.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
That reminds me of the McGregor’s legacy joke (a bit vulgar but https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/feuz6/whats_that_joke_that_endsbut_you_fuck_1_sheep/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/feuz6/whats_that_jok...). The gist is that people are noted for the horrible/crazy/strange things they’ve done, even if they’ve done other things as well (eg Hitler is never going to be noted for his work on animal rights and vegetarianism).
tigershark 6y ago
What valid reason brings you to vote for a racist? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

pcbro141 6y ago

The point is it should be a disqualifier. There is nothing that can convince me to vote for a person who endorses white supremacists. I cannot compromise on equal rights for all humans.

trumpaway 6y ago
He disavowed white supremacists, KKK, Proud Boys, etc. several times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd0cMmBvqWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd0cMmBvqWc (4:10 is him denouncing Proud Boys, for example) https://streamable.com/sr9o2s https://streamable.com/sr9o2s
- knodi123 6y ago
  yes, certainly he did. He also refused to. He takes both sides of lots of issues. You could make a page-a-day calendar out of quotes where he has taken opposite sides on an issue. It's a strategic decision, and it's very effective. The white nationalists can look at what he says and say "ah, he wants us to stand by. Sure, later he'll disavow us, but I got the message. wink wink." And then the people who oppose white nationalism can say "see, he disavowed it, so that clarifies everything - nothing he said before meant what it sounded like."

epistasis 6y ago

This is not mere cherry picking, these are actual statements, far outside the norm of any other politician at the national stage, that have resulted in violence and even death in the United States. How can you be discouraged by acknowledging the full spectrum of what this president has encouraged? What are you willing to sweep under the rug to white wash clearly bad behavior?

jorl17 6y ago

What I fail to understand, as a foreigner, is how someone can vote for a president who is an outright liar. Look no further than his last tweets as of right now. He is denying that he has lost and is insisting that there are illegal things happening (I'm not saying there aren't, but I will go the extra mile and say he has lost it and that only a manchild would say otherwise -- this manchild). I could not go to bed with a clear mind knowing that I voted for a lying disgusting piece of trash, even if that meant that I was voting for the one whose policies I "agreed with the most". I guess I _get_ it if you view politics as sports. Sports fans (in the EU) will support their club to death. The president of a football club can be corrupt and they will still probably back them so that they can back the club. In both cases, these are twisted, unhealthy stances. I really cannot fathom how so many Americans can vote for this piece of trash human being. I don't think all these people are bigots, racists or idiots; I simply cannot understand how someone can be comfortable with having a piece of shit as the face of the country. I used to love America and the idea of going to it. I used to think it was lead by hardworking (albeit maybe _too_ hardworking) people. I used to think that maybe healthcare wasn't "that" important because it was _AMERICA_. I can't think like that anymore because a very significant part of the country chooses to be portrayed by an _objectively and openly racist, sexist bigot_. Heck, I think I'm right leaning on most stuff in life, but I could never ever carry a straight face knowing I contributed to this disaster. I would rather vote blank (I'm a strong believer in doing just that), against the system, than vote "for" a pig so as to not "vote" for the opposition (a typical argument used by trump "non-supporters who vote for him"). At least the opposition wouldn't put America to shame in such a magnitude. In my country America is now used as an example of what not to be, what not to do. We tolerate its undeniable leadership in the world; we no longer worship it or look at it as somewhat of a better society. It used to be the other way around. What happened, America?

presentation 6y ago
US politics is structurally messed up and there will be more escalating drama in the coming years/decades that will definitely leak internationally. With mechanical issues like the electoral college being deeply flawed, to more innate issues of the system like the two party system reducing the entirety of politics in the USA to an adversarial binary, it will just get more polarized and ensure the disenfranchisement of even more people than now. This is a minor win in a sinking ship, IMO.

gisely 6y ago

Our president not only condones white supremacist groups but dreams about harness their hate and violence. If noticing the somehow undermines Trump supporters that’s not cherrypicking it’s justice.

tashoecraft 6y ago

If you chose to vote for Trump because of his economic policies and the benefits it would get you, you chose money over the safety of your fellow citizens. You felt your fellow non white citizens were less important than your 401k. That when white nationalists were chanting “Jews will not replace us” and the president would not condemn them you stood by him. There is a massive list of horrible things this president has done. Many acts of fraud through out his entire life. An open child rape court case. Through all of this they have supported him. It’s not one cherry picked example. Trump supporters have nothing to hold up anymore. If you are one, look yourself in the mirror and say “I have been a terrible human being and American citizen, but I will work to be better”. Trump supporters don’t deserve sympathy or respect. Trump supporting republicans need to earn that.

creato 6y ago
Trump lost support among whites and gained support among black, latino, asian voters [1]. Whatever it is that is going on is not as simple as you make it sound. Personally, I think Democrats need to simply stop talking as much about race and gender. Trump being an asshole about the topic doesn't mean that people care. Most people don't want to hear it. As another example, CA prop 16 was also voted down, in a minority-majority state. 1. https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-scrambling-of-democrats-and-republicans-traditional-bases/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-sc...
- tashoecraft 6y ago
  Democrats have been very bad at elections. This election shouldn’t have been this close. Nothing changes the issues with Trump. People looked at Trump as a candidate and decided to vote for him regardless of all those things about him, and for that they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.
  - salawat 6y ago
    >they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen. Incorrect from their point of view. They saw him as a lesser threat to stability through his policy decisions. I know, because I asked. Further, it is hard to argue with the results when you had Democrat cities getting burnt to the ground and there being no effort put into curtailing it which philosophy of leadership would genuinely lead to a safer polis. In fact, many of them voted that way, because they thought it was better for the country. Demonization and dehumanization of the other side gets you either nowhere, or in an increasingly bad place. I strongly advise against it.

xlm1717 6y ago

This whole comment thread shows divisions won't be going away anytime soon.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

That reminds me of the McGregor’s legacy joke (a bit vulgar but https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/feuz6/whats_that_joke_that_endsbut_you_fuck_1_sheep/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/feuz6/whats_that_jok...). The gist is that people are noted for the horrible/crazy/strange things they’ve done, even if they’ve done other things as well (eg Hitler is never going to be noted for his work on animal rights and vegetarianism).

tigershark 6y ago

What valid reason brings you to vote for a racist? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump