5 ms·

This is fascinating and leaves me with so many questions. What do these cables look like? How are they made? How do they lay them? Are they in sections? How are

This is fascinating and leaves me with so many questions. What do these cables look like? How are they made? How do they lay them? Are they in sections? How are they connected? How much maintenance do they require? How much data can they carry?

aosaigh 6y ago
Where do they connect to from the sea? How do they secure those locations? Are they all privately owned? How much “public” vs “private” traffic is on them? So many questions
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  They go very deep underground (rather than lying on the seafloor) quite a distance out from the coastline, and stay deep underground until they get to the "landing manhole" which is nowhere near the beach. The manhole is generally surrounded by a security perimeter. The "landing station" where the NSA's equipment sits is either in the same compound or (less ideally) very nearby. In the latter case the cable run from the manhole to the landing station has to be protected as well. The digging that they do on the beach is quite disruptive. It often involves blasting. Beachfront landowners fight these things tooth and nail, which is why the landings tend to be in either highly industrialized port locations (Portland, OR) or middle-of-nowhere rugged rocky beaches that nobody visits or lives near.
  - Stratoscope 6y ago
    Now I'm curious. Portland is nowhere near the ocean. Do the cables run 100 miles up the Columbia River?
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      By the looks of the map, yes, there are several that land in Hillsboro (a suburb of Portland, OR)
      - Stratoscope 6y ago
        Interesting, thanks! I always thought of the cable landings as being on the coast, but obviously I was mistaken.
        octoberfranklin 6y ago
        Well, technically they're still on the coastline. Just like docks, marinas, and even cities, they tend to get moved inland along harbors and estuaries where available, for protection from ocean weather and waters. Even San Francisco ('s city center) is on the Bay-facing side of the relevant landmass.
      - octoberfranklin 6y ago
        That's not surprising either, all the Oregon data centers are in Hillsboro.
    - octoberfranklin 6y ago
      Probably. Washington State's cable landings are all in Puget Sound, a similar distance up the Strait of Juan de Fuca. In the Pacific Northwest the weather on along the coast can get pretty fierce in the winter (wind, storms). You don't tend to see a lot of industrial infrastructure built there.
    - bogomipz 6y ago
      No. Once they reach land they use public right-aways just like normal service providers. There would be no reason to bury a cable in a river to get it from the coast to the city.
  - porterde 6y ago
    Some original telegraph submarine cables were just dragged up the beach, buried a little, then then ends cut and wired up in a tiny concrete hut at the end of the beach. Do an image search for “Porthcurno cable hut” and read about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porthcurno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porthcurno
  - bogomipz 6y ago
    >"They go very deep underground (rather than lying on the seafloor) quite a distance out from the coastline, and stay deep underground until they get to the "landing manhole" which is nowhere near the beach. The manhole is generally surrounded by a security perimeter. The "landing station" where the NSA's equipment sits is either in the same compound or (less ideally) very nearby. In the latter case the cable run from the manhole to the landing station has to be protected as well." This is not true. Cable is only buried when the depth is less than a 1,000 meters. At 1,000 meters and above it just sits on the sea floor.[1] There is also no "manhole" where a cable pop's out of the ocean floor. The NSA does not need to be in a cable landing station, there is no benefit. The wavelengths can be peeled off fibre optic cable anywhere along the path. Hence why they were doing this at an AT&T Central Office on Folsom Street in S.F.[2], nowhere near a cable landing station. Cable landing stations are actually pretty uneventful places, generally some nondescript industrial park. The security there is the same as it is at any IX or data center. [1] https://www.nec.com/en/global/about/mitatv/02/2.html https://www.nec.com/en/global/about/mitatv/02/2.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Here's a Vice video about a landing point in Denmark: https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-beach-connecting-world-internet-transatlantic-cables/5b0d679ff1cdb3690d71e8b1 https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-beach-connect...
- NickNameNick 6y ago
  There's a really good book called 'Tubes" where the author describes visiting a cable landing site. Also being present when a cable is bought ashore, and when the cable laying ship is loaded.
ribasushi 6y ago
I am so glad you asked! Neal Stephenson answers all your questions and then some in the timeless "Mother Earth Mother Board" https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/ https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jlgaddis 6y ago
I don't have a link handy for you but search for "Hibernia Atlantic" on Youtube. They've posted many videos over the years showing exactly how it's done.
beardyw 6y ago
I really enjoyed an episode of Mighty Ships (episode 1:7 -just looked it up) showing just how hard laying cables is. A surprise to me is they carry quite high voltage to power seabed repeaters. It shows them at one point trying to find a short in the massive cable.
bogomipz 6y ago
There's some good cross-section diagrams of submarine cable here: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2018/02/submarine-cables-subsea-power-cables.html https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2018/02/submarine-cable... Fiber theoretically has unlimited bandwidth. The bandwidth of these cable system is limited by the transmission gear used to light the fiber. This is the same for all optical telecom gear though. The cables themselves have a lifespan though. Newer systems have a lifespan of around 25 years.
- iptrans 6y ago
  Cable systems have a design lifespan. This is usually around 25 years. The cables themselves have a lifespan, but it's far longer than 25 years. Many cable systems have had their lifespan extended beyond 25 years, but is more of a question whether they are economically viable, rather than technically viable. A lot of cable systems have been retired, purely because they had become obsolete and a new system was more cost effective. Fiber optics cables themselves are very longlived, if there is no external trauma. There are cables from the 1980s still in use. It's more likely that the amps in a subsea system fail long before the cable. Once the amps start failing, it usually isn't cost effective to keep using the cable system anymore.
  - bogomipz 6y ago
    >"Cable systems have a design lifespan. This is usually around 25 years." Literally the last sentence of my post is "Newer systems have a lifespan of around 25 years." What is your point? >"The cables themselves have a lifespan, but it's far longer than 25 years." No this is incorrect. There are a many factors that limit the lifetime of "wet plant" - chief among them are fiber hydrogen exposure, which causes attenuation. There is also glue and insulation aging as well as corrosion. And "the cable" in submarines systems always includes all of the passive optical components, alignments, joints and passive electronic components. Extending these system is generally on the order of 5 years. That could hardly be classified as "far longer than 25 years."
    - iptrans 6y ago

aosaigh 6y ago

Where do they connect to from the sea? How do they secure those locations? Are they all privately owned? How much “public” vs “private” traffic is on them? So many questions

octoberfranklin 6y ago
They go very deep underground (rather than lying on the seafloor) quite a distance out from the coastline, and stay deep underground until they get to the "landing manhole" which is nowhere near the beach. The manhole is generally surrounded by a security perimeter. The "landing station" where the NSA's equipment sits is either in the same compound or (less ideally) very nearby. In the latter case the cable run from the manhole to the landing station has to be protected as well. The digging that they do on the beach is quite disruptive. It often involves blasting. Beachfront landowners fight these things tooth and nail, which is why the landings tend to be in either highly industrialized port locations (Portland, OR) or middle-of-nowhere rugged rocky beaches that nobody visits or lives near.
- Stratoscope 6y ago
  Now I'm curious. Portland is nowhere near the ocean. Do the cables run 100 miles up the Columbia River?
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    By the looks of the map, yes, there are several that land in Hillsboro (a suburb of Portland, OR)
    - Stratoscope 6y ago
      Interesting, thanks! I always thought of the cable landings as being on the coast, but obviously I was mistaken.
      - octoberfranklin 6y ago
        Well, technically they're still on the coastline. Just like docks, marinas, and even cities, they tend to get moved inland along harbors and estuaries where available, for protection from ocean weather and waters. Even San Francisco ('s city center) is on the Bay-facing side of the relevant landmass.
    - octoberfranklin 6y ago
      That's not surprising either, all the Oregon data centers are in Hillsboro.
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    Probably. Washington State's cable landings are all in Puget Sound, a similar distance up the Strait of Juan de Fuca. In the Pacific Northwest the weather on along the coast can get pretty fierce in the winter (wind, storms). You don't tend to see a lot of industrial infrastructure built there.
  - bogomipz 6y ago
    No. Once they reach land they use public right-aways just like normal service providers. There would be no reason to bury a cable in a river to get it from the coast to the city.
- porterde 6y ago
  Some original telegraph submarine cables were just dragged up the beach, buried a little, then then ends cut and wired up in a tiny concrete hut at the end of the beach. Do an image search for “Porthcurno cable hut” and read about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porthcurno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porthcurno
- bogomipz 6y ago
  >"They go very deep underground (rather than lying on the seafloor) quite a distance out from the coastline, and stay deep underground until they get to the "landing manhole" which is nowhere near the beach. The manhole is generally surrounded by a security perimeter. The "landing station" where the NSA's equipment sits is either in the same compound or (less ideally) very nearby. In the latter case the cable run from the manhole to the landing station has to be protected as well." This is not true. Cable is only buried when the depth is less than a 1,000 meters. At 1,000 meters and above it just sits on the sea floor.[1] There is also no "manhole" where a cable pop's out of the ocean floor. The NSA does not need to be in a cable landing station, there is no benefit. The wavelengths can be peeled off fibre optic cable anywhere along the path. Hence why they were doing this at an AT&T Central Office on Folsom Street in S.F.[2], nowhere near a cable landing station. Cable landing stations are actually pretty uneventful places, generally some nondescript industrial park. The security there is the same as it is at any IX or data center. [1] https://www.nec.com/en/global/about/mitatv/02/2.html https://www.nec.com/en/global/about/mitatv/02/2.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
Scoundreller 6y ago
Here's a Vice video about a landing point in Denmark: https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-beach-connecting-world-internet-transatlantic-cables/5b0d679ff1cdb3690d71e8b1 https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-beach-connect...
NickNameNick 6y ago
There's a really good book called 'Tubes" where the author describes visiting a cable landing site. Also being present when a cable is bought ashore, and when the cable laying ship is loaded.

ribasushi 6y ago

I am so glad you asked! Neal Stephenson answers all your questions and then some in the timeless "Mother Earth Mother Board" https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/ https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jlgaddis 6y ago

I don't have a link handy for you but search for "Hibernia Atlantic" on Youtube. They've posted many videos over the years showing exactly how it's done.

beardyw 6y ago

I really enjoyed an episode of Mighty Ships (episode 1:7 -just looked it up) showing just how hard laying cables is. A surprise to me is they carry quite high voltage to power seabed repeaters. It shows them at one point trying to find a short in the massive cable.

bogomipz 6y ago

There's some good cross-section diagrams of submarine cable here: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2018/02/submarine-cables-subsea-power-cables.html https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2018/02/submarine-cable... Fiber theoretically has unlimited bandwidth. The bandwidth of these cable system is limited by the transmission gear used to light the fiber. This is the same for all optical telecom gear though. The cables themselves have a lifespan though. Newer systems have a lifespan of around 25 years.

iptrans 6y ago
Cable systems have a design lifespan. This is usually around 25 years. The cables themselves have a lifespan, but it's far longer than 25 years. Many cable systems have had their lifespan extended beyond 25 years, but is more of a question whether they are economically viable, rather than technically viable. A lot of cable systems have been retired, purely because they had become obsolete and a new system was more cost effective. Fiber optics cables themselves are very longlived, if there is no external trauma. There are cables from the 1980s still in use. It's more likely that the amps in a subsea system fail long before the cable. Once the amps start failing, it usually isn't cost effective to keep using the cable system anymore.
- bogomipz 6y ago
  >"Cable systems have a design lifespan. This is usually around 25 years." Literally the last sentence of my post is "Newer systems have a lifespan of around 25 years." What is your point? >"The cables themselves have a lifespan, but it's far longer than 25 years." No this is incorrect. There are a many factors that limit the lifetime of "wet plant" - chief among them are fiber hydrogen exposure, which causes attenuation. There is also glue and insulation aging as well as corrosion. And "the cable" in submarines systems always includes all of the passive optical components, alignments, joints and passive electronic components. Extending these system is generally on the order of 5 years. That could hardly be classified as "far longer than 25 years."
  - iptrans 6y ago