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There was certainly an "anyone but Hillary" contingent, but I think you'll find by actually talking to these people that the venn diagram overlap between that c

by beaner 6y ago

There was certainly an "anyone but Hillary" contingent, but I think you'll find by actually talking to these people that the venn diagram overlap between that circle and the "actually likes Trump's policies" circle is about 99%. A lot of the points you mentioned are points that people who were not Left, have come to move past on the Right. The Right has changed. Trump does support free trade - if the US is not taken advantage of. Foreign wars are something everyone's tired of. Russia as a major threat is not something people take seriously, unless it's used to influence people against Trump. Etc. Many on the right would classify the points you mentioned as "neocon" or "neoliberal," something they've always been uncomfortable with and seen as an infection of the party and had to grudgingly accept without alternative, until Trump. Support for Trump is at a deep, emotional level for many. But certainly not in spite of his policy positions. If anything, his policy positions reinforce that emotion for most of his supporters. The people most in need of good policy, at the price of an acceptable nonchalance regarding a president's mere presentability - minorities - made their voices heard by voting for Trump. Every single minority demographic voted in higher numbers for Trump this election over last. The only demographic to vote for him less? White men. And that made the difference. The privileged have the benefit of being able to vote based on presentability. The rest of the population cannot afford to in the same way.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Thank you for your thoughtful response. > The people most in need of good policy, at the price of an acceptable nonchalance regarding a president's mere presentability - minorities - made their voices heard by voting for Trump. Every single minority demographic voted in higher numbers for Trump this election over last. The only demographic to vote for him less? White men. And that made the difference. Can you share your source for this? (this is not a challenge, I'm genuinely interested in digging deeper into the data myself)
- beaner 6y ago
  This thread: https://twitter.com/CharlesMBlow/status/1323975456668979200 https://twitter.com/CharlesMBlow/status/1323975456668979200 Which pulls its insights from this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/... "The black male vote for trump increased from 13% in 2016 to 18% this year" "The black female vote for Trump doubled from 4% in 2016 to 8% this year" "Exit polls show a majority of white women voting for Trump. (Important note: Pew analysis of actual votes in 2016 showed that it wasn’t a majority but was a plurality.)" "The percentage of LGBT voting for Trump doubled from 2016" "The percentage of Latinos and Asians voting for Trump increased from 2016"
n4r9 6y ago
I feel like you're glossing over the fact that minority groups still voted overwhelmingly against Trump, just slightly less overwhelmingly than before.
- beaner 6y ago
  It is certainly something to recognize, that minorities generally held up that pattern. But the point I'm trying to make is about how peoples' minds changed after 4 years of experiencing an actual Trump presidency. Minorities moved towards him, and only white men moved away. That seems quite notable to me.
  - zuminator 6y ago
    I think it's less notable than the media is making it out to be. In 2016, Trump was an unknown quantity to minorities. It was presumed that as a conservative xenophobe with racially charged rhetoric he was a monstrous individual, and people voted on that mere presumption. In 2020 the majority people of color still believed that he was unsuitable, and hence voted accordingly. But people's lives are not monolithic. Some minorities, regardless of group, prospered on a personal level over the past 4 years. They did better, their families did better, they were not dissatisfied with their lives under Trump. For some of those people, that personal reality took priority over what some call "tribal" politics. So they voted for more of the same. It's for basically that reason that incumbent politicians are usually favored to win. As long as people's lives go generally okay, they want to stick with the devil they know.
    - beaner 6y ago
      > I think it's less notable than the media is making it out to be. Really? From my perspective, the media has not noted it at all. I had to notice it in a Twitter stream before it disappeared down my feed forever, to know these statistics. It seems more notable than zero, and therefore to me more notable than the media is making it out to be. I don't disagree with the rest of your comment. Peoples' lives were determined to be better under Trump, so they voted to keep it. Privileged people with the benefit of discounting quality of life bumps that were significant to others but insignificant to themselves, were more likely to vote based on appearances.

by beaner 6y ago

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

Thank you for your thoughtful response. > The people most in need of good policy, at the price of an acceptable nonchalance regarding a president's mere presentability - minorities - made their voices heard by voting for Trump. Every single minority demographic voted in higher numbers for Trump this election over last. The only demographic to vote for him less? White men. And that made the difference. Can you share your source for this? (this is not a challenge, I'm genuinely interested in digging deeper into the data myself)

beaner 6y ago
This thread: https://twitter.com/CharlesMBlow/status/1323975456668979200 https://twitter.com/CharlesMBlow/status/1323975456668979200 Which pulls its insights from this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/... "The black male vote for trump increased from 13% in 2016 to 18% this year" "The black female vote for Trump doubled from 4% in 2016 to 8% this year" "Exit polls show a majority of white women voting for Trump. (Important note: Pew analysis of actual votes in 2016 showed that it wasn’t a majority but was a plurality.)" "The percentage of LGBT voting for Trump doubled from 2016" "The percentage of Latinos and Asians voting for Trump increased from 2016"

n4r9 6y ago

I feel like you're glossing over the fact that minority groups still voted overwhelmingly against Trump, just slightly less overwhelmingly than before.

beaner 6y ago
It is certainly something to recognize, that minorities generally held up that pattern. But the point I'm trying to make is about how peoples' minds changed after 4 years of experiencing an actual Trump presidency. Minorities moved towards him, and only white men moved away. That seems quite notable to me.
- zuminator 6y ago
  I think it's less notable than the media is making it out to be. In 2016, Trump was an unknown quantity to minorities. It was presumed that as a conservative xenophobe with racially charged rhetoric he was a monstrous individual, and people voted on that mere presumption. In 2020 the majority people of color still believed that he was unsuitable, and hence voted accordingly. But people's lives are not monolithic. Some minorities, regardless of group, prospered on a personal level over the past 4 years. They did better, their families did better, they were not dissatisfied with their lives under Trump. For some of those people, that personal reality took priority over what some call "tribal" politics. So they voted for more of the same. It's for basically that reason that incumbent politicians are usually favored to win. As long as people's lives go generally okay, they want to stick with the devil they know.
  - beaner 6y ago
    > I think it's less notable than the media is making it out to be. Really? From my perspective, the media has not noted it at all. I had to notice it in a Twitter stream before it disappeared down my feed forever, to know these statistics. It seems more notable than zero, and therefore to me more notable than the media is making it out to be. I don't disagree with the rest of your comment. Peoples' lives were determined to be better under Trump, so they voted to keep it. Privileged people with the benefit of discounting quality of life bumps that were significant to others but insignificant to themselves, were more likely to vote based on appearances.