8 ms·

I said that he lost the popular vote. My point is that many of his 2016 votes were "anyone but Clinton." If he had a more appealing opponent, it wouldn't have

by throwaway201103 6y ago

I said that he lost the popular vote. My point is that many of his 2016 votes were "anyone but Clinton." If he had a more appealing opponent, it wouldn't have been close.

akkartik 6y ago
Isn't your claim falsified by this election? This opponent was someone else. Trump didn't lose many votes. The reality that's hit me this year is that most Americans will vote for anyone who wins "their" party's primary. Everything else is rationalization.
- intended 6y ago
  Have not people checked and realized that trump got more votes this time ? I think he did 62.9 million last time and is at 70.5 now. More people got out and voted, and more people voted for trump than before.
  - akkartik 6y ago
    Yeah. It's all about getting us off our asses and into the voting booth. I think this also explains why more partisan rhetoric wins. It gets more people mobilized, while not really hurting you with moderates. It only hurts you with people who think. Who're a tiny minority. (I'm not convinced I'm one of them.)
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  I'm saying that both elections were decided based on hate of the opponent, not support for the winner. That's backwards from what it should be.
  - akkartik 6y ago
    That's how it's been for at least decades. Democrats voted for Gore from hate of Bush. So this is a structural problem you're stuck with. Unless you come up with a stronger force than a pandemic with 100,000 fatalities.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      Ranked choice elections, or something that gives seemingly fringe candidates a chance. Skip primaries for party candidate and use the extra time for more debates.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I don't think so. They wanted Trump. And people wanted Clinton, I have seen them. And people wanted Biden. It is denial to say they don't want Trump. They truly do want him.
  - fabatka 6y ago
    I assumed the same, but I've seen in CNN's live coverage on election day (unfortunately I can't find it now) that in an exit poll (I don't remember where) only 2 of 5 Trump voters said they voted against Biden (and not for Trump), but 3 of 5 Biden voters said they voted against Trump (and not for Biden).
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  > most Americans will vote for anyone who wins "their" party's primary I agree in principle, the majority of people will just vote party line. But there is no doubt that Trump supporters came out in force in 2020 far greater than 2016. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people think Trump is an ideal choice for President, but I do continue to try and listen, maybe I will finally get hit with the clue bat. I've got Trump fans as friends, but they can never really articulate why I should agree with them other than 'democrats bad'. And that doesn't resonate with me, because I need something more than simple tribalism to guide my choice.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  Tom Nichols, Never Trumper and former GOPer: > A Large Portion of the Electorate Chose the Sociopath * https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/large-portion-electorate-chose-sociopath/616994/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/large-port...
colinmhayes 6y ago
Trump got more votes this election. The "anyone but clinton" line is a falsehood. The real reason Trump won is because huge swaths of Americans feel disenfranchised because we no longer control the entire worlds economy like we did for the 30 years after ww2. They're entitled brats who feel they deserve more even thought they're already the wealthiest group of unskilled workers in the world. And the republicans realize that and are willing to lie and say they can bring that America back.
- dash2 6y ago
  "Entitled brats" is a little harsh. What salary should an unskilled American be entitled to? (An Indian with the same skills might get a few dollars a day.) Do you live on that amount? Would you be happy about it to, if you had been born with worse genetics or a worse home environment?
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    You're right, it is too harsh. I'd feel the same way if I were them. It's very difficult to come to the realization that your life will be worse than that of your parents and grandparents(at least economically). It's unfortunate that they've fallen for republican bullshit because I think it's pretty clear that democrat policy is better for them in the long run, but democrats aren't willing to lie and they're very bad politicians compared to republicans.
- InTheArena 6y ago
  This post is a great example of the attitude that led to exact to the Trump win. The middle class in America paid for globalization in a way that the lower and upper classes have not. I spent enough time in other countries to truly appreciate that there are 1 billion less people in poverty because of globalization. But they are also very many angry people who will point out that globalization has not been great for them. The only politician who They felt they could turn to was Trump.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago

I said that he lost the popular vote. My point is that many of his 2016 votes were "anyone but Clinton." If he had a more appealing opponent, it wouldn't have been close.

akkartik 6y ago

Isn't your claim falsified by this election? This opponent was someone else. Trump didn't lose many votes. The reality that's hit me this year is that most Americans will vote for anyone who wins "their" party's primary. Everything else is rationalization.

intended 6y ago
Have not people checked and realized that trump got more votes this time ? I think he did 62.9 million last time and is at 70.5 now. More people got out and voted, and more people voted for trump than before.
- akkartik 6y ago
  Yeah. It's all about getting us off our asses and into the voting booth. I think this also explains why more partisan rhetoric wins. It gets more people mobilized, while not really hurting you with moderates. It only hurts you with people who think. Who're a tiny minority. (I'm not convinced I'm one of them.)
throwaway201103 6y ago
I'm saying that both elections were decided based on hate of the opponent, not support for the winner. That's backwards from what it should be.
- akkartik 6y ago
  That's how it's been for at least decades. Democrats voted for Gore from hate of Bush. So this is a structural problem you're stuck with. Unless you come up with a stronger force than a pandemic with 100,000 fatalities.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    Ranked choice elections, or something that gives seemingly fringe candidates a chance. Skip primaries for party candidate and use the extra time for more debates.
- watwut 6y ago
  I don't think so. They wanted Trump. And people wanted Clinton, I have seen them. And people wanted Biden. It is denial to say they don't want Trump. They truly do want him.
- fabatka 6y ago
  I assumed the same, but I've seen in CNN's live coverage on election day (unfortunately I can't find it now) that in an exit poll (I don't remember where) only 2 of 5 Trump voters said they voted against Biden (and not for Trump), but 3 of 5 Biden voters said they voted against Trump (and not for Biden).
rootusrootus 6y ago
> most Americans will vote for anyone who wins "their" party's primary I agree in principle, the majority of people will just vote party line. But there is no doubt that Trump supporters came out in force in 2020 far greater than 2016. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people think Trump is an ideal choice for President, but I do continue to try and listen, maybe I will finally get hit with the clue bat. I've got Trump fans as friends, but they can never really articulate why I should agree with them other than 'democrats bad'. And that doesn't resonate with me, because I need something more than simple tribalism to guide my choice.
throw0101a 6y ago
Tom Nichols, Never Trumper and former GOPer: > A Large Portion of the Electorate Chose the Sociopath * https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/large-portion-electorate-chose-sociopath/616994/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/large-port...

colinmhayes 6y ago

Trump got more votes this election. The "anyone but clinton" line is a falsehood. The real reason Trump won is because huge swaths of Americans feel disenfranchised because we no longer control the entire worlds economy like we did for the 30 years after ww2. They're entitled brats who feel they deserve more even thought they're already the wealthiest group of unskilled workers in the world. And the republicans realize that and are willing to lie and say they can bring that America back.

dash2 6y ago
"Entitled brats" is a little harsh. What salary should an unskilled American be entitled to? (An Indian with the same skills might get a few dollars a day.) Do you live on that amount? Would you be happy about it to, if you had been born with worse genetics or a worse home environment?
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  You're right, it is too harsh. I'd feel the same way if I were them. It's very difficult to come to the realization that your life will be worse than that of your parents and grandparents(at least economically). It's unfortunate that they've fallen for republican bullshit because I think it's pretty clear that democrat policy is better for them in the long run, but democrats aren't willing to lie and they're very bad politicians compared to republicans.
InTheArena 6y ago
This post is a great example of the attitude that led to exact to the Trump win. The middle class in America paid for globalization in a way that the lower and upper classes have not. I spent enough time in other countries to truly appreciate that there are 1 billion less people in poverty because of globalization. But they are also very many angry people who will point out that globalization has not been great for them. The only politician who They felt they could turn to was Trump.
- colinmhayes 6y ago