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I'm forced to work with it on daily basis and it makes my life more miserable. I just wish it wasn't the defacto standard and CTOs started to get fired for cho

I'm forced to work with it on daily basis and it makes my life more miserable. I just wish it wasn't the defacto standard and CTOs started to get fired for choosing it. That's how much I like it.

hedora 6y ago
I felt that way about Jira while I was using it. The new job uses an in-house thing that they scraped together in the ‘90s. It’s much worse than Jira.
noir_lord 6y ago
Jira isn't bad but for it to not suck it has to be do most of the following. Be consistently used by everyone in a similar way using the same basic approach. Have a lightweight workflow setup. Be usefully integrated with confluence. Not be used as a tool to punish Devs. Last place used it to do the opposite of above, new place doesn't, same tool totally different outcome. I don't mind it but it's very flexibility leads people to keep changing the workflow to fix the problem rather than addressing the problem. Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements.
- mekoka 6y ago
  So in order for it to be good, it needs to be <insert your long Santa Claus list here>. Basically, it sucks.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    I can hit a nail with a hammer, I can hit my thumb with a hammer in neither case does the hammer suck.
    - cheschire 6y ago
      Yes and now you can’t own the hammer, you have to call a cloud provider to bring you one each time you need to use it, assuming your hammer subscription is paid up.
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  >Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements. Tell me about it. Recently had a PM ask me for a time estimate for a task called "Create reporting tool for [network] interface data from [network monitoring tool]". No requirements. No further description whatsoever. And I told the PM three business days prior that I needed more information!
  - stefan_ 6y ago
    I swear there is a very large segment of PM that believe they are some kind of "big idea" and "vision" dreamers and to get intimately familiar with the details of what they asking to be built is below them. You would get tickets like "Support protocol X" or "Integrate with 3rd party Y" with absolutely no effort spent to answer the hard questions, and most of the time they don't even know X or Y beyond the marketing.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      I think in part it is because "PM" is such a nebulous role, there isn't a clear career track for someone to become a PM so you end up with a widely disparate set of skills in that role. The best PM I worked with did comp-sci, decided he hated programming and went into project management, he got it. The worst was promoted out of customer support and didn't have a fucking clue.
    - goatinaboat 6y ago
      I swear there is a very large segment of PM that believe they are some kind of "big idea" and "vision" dreamers and to get intimately familiar with the details of what they asking to be built is below them. Those same types also believe that if only they can add enough custom fields and statuses and mandatory workflows the project will become self-managing and they can go and do whatever it is they think they do.
- Hizonner 6y ago
  > Be usefully integrated with confluence. Ew.
marcinzm 6y ago
What do you prefer? I've tried a bunch of products over the years and they all have some sort of really annoying flaw or shortcoming. Jira at least has easy to reference issue numbers and can be configured in pretty much any way.
- gravypod 6y ago
  GitLab and GitHub issues have sequential IDs with GitLab also having a bunch of the more advanced management features.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    Haven't used GitLab but I found GitHub's issues extremely limited and the UI turned away any non-engineers. So GitHub becomes the "engineering internal issues tracker" while everyone else uses something else. So now engineers need to keep track of two different systems and keep them in sync.

I'm forced to work with it on daily basis and it makes my life more miserable. I just wish it wasn't the defacto standard and CTOs started to get fired for choosing it. That's how much I like it.

hedora 6y ago

I felt that way about Jira while I was using it. The new job uses an in-house thing that they scraped together in the ‘90s. It’s much worse than Jira.

noir_lord 6y ago

Jira isn't bad but for it to not suck it has to be do most of the following. Be consistently used by everyone in a similar way using the same basic approach. Have a lightweight workflow setup. Be usefully integrated with confluence. Not be used as a tool to punish Devs. Last place used it to do the opposite of above, new place doesn't, same tool totally different outcome. I don't mind it but it's very flexibility leads people to keep changing the workflow to fix the problem rather than addressing the problem. Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements.

mekoka 6y ago
So in order for it to be good, it needs to be <insert your long Santa Claus list here>. Basically, it sucks.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  I can hit a nail with a hammer, I can hit my thumb with a hammer in neither case does the hammer suck.
  - cheschire 6y ago
    Yes and now you can’t own the hammer, you have to call a cloud provider to bring you one each time you need to use it, assuming your hammer subscription is paid up.
CameronNemo 6y ago
>Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements. Tell me about it. Recently had a PM ask me for a time estimate for a task called "Create reporting tool for [network] interface data from [network monitoring tool]". No requirements. No further description whatsoever. And I told the PM three business days prior that I needed more information!
- stefan_ 6y ago
  I swear there is a very large segment of PM that believe they are some kind of "big idea" and "vision" dreamers and to get intimately familiar with the details of what they asking to be built is below them. You would get tickets like "Support protocol X" or "Integrate with 3rd party Y" with absolutely no effort spent to answer the hard questions, and most of the time they don't even know X or Y beyond the marketing.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    I think in part it is because "PM" is such a nebulous role, there isn't a clear career track for someone to become a PM so you end up with a widely disparate set of skills in that role. The best PM I worked with did comp-sci, decided he hated programming and went into project management, he got it. The worst was promoted out of customer support and didn't have a fucking clue.
  - goatinaboat 6y ago
    I swear there is a very large segment of PM that believe they are some kind of "big idea" and "vision" dreamers and to get intimately familiar with the details of what they asking to be built is below them. Those same types also believe that if only they can add enough custom fields and statuses and mandatory workflows the project will become self-managing and they can go and do whatever it is they think they do.
Hizonner 6y ago
> Be usefully integrated with confluence. Ew.

marcinzm 6y ago

What do you prefer? I've tried a bunch of products over the years and they all have some sort of really annoying flaw or shortcoming. Jira at least has easy to reference issue numbers and can be configured in pretty much any way.

gravypod 6y ago
GitLab and GitHub issues have sequential IDs with GitLab also having a bunch of the more advanced management features.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Haven't used GitLab but I found GitHub's issues extremely limited and the UI turned away any non-engineers. So GitHub becomes the "engineering internal issues tracker" while everyone else uses something else. So now engineers need to keep track of two different systems and keep them in sync.