5 ms·

I mean. I see their point. I wear a poppy; I like seeing poppies; I definitely think it's something we should all be darn tootin' grateful for. It's a cultural

I mean. I see their point. I wear a poppy; I like seeing poppies; I definitely think it's something we should all be darn tootin' grateful for. It's a cultural event in Canada and embraced by virtually the entire population. You can get them everywhere you go and generally you can wear them everywhere you go. You certainly see them everywhere you go :). But - I also have seen tons of businesses squeezed between rock and a hard place and PR and legislation and human rights and lawsuits and boycotts, because you genuinely cannot please everybody, and today it's easier than ever to find X number of people across the continent who are bothered by any given thing and give endless headache to the poor store manager who just wants to run a store. Sometimes it's just easier/safer to force the lowest common denominator and get with your business... except when it's not. Problem is - anybody who starts a sentence with "It just makes sense that..." or "Everybody agrees that..." or "This is different because..." is empathically wrong. There empirically are people who think Poppies are political statement, there empirically are people who think their own statement is just as equal or more, and there are people who will claim, with fair amount of logic, that now we have government sponsoring / legislating one cause while forbidding others. etc etc etc. Reason #138492 I'm not running a public store/business these days.

criddell 6y ago
What's the political statement made by wearing a poppy? Did Whole Foods make a political statement when they enacted the poppy ban?
- maxk42 6y ago
  It's not political. It's done to remember those who died in combat. Many people have a relative or loved one who died in combat.
  - robertfw 6y ago
    I would argue that focusing solely on the nobility of those who died in combat while ignoring what led to them being forced into combat in the first place, is political. I think the poppy, and Remembrance Day in general, spends far too little time examining _why_ these people were sent to die.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      Sounds like you're saying it's political for being insufficiently political.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        I’m not about to wade into Canadian culture because I know just enough to be very wrong so I hope it’s fine to use a US parallel. If Memorial Day was “celebrate the individual personal lives and accomplishments of all these people who died at war” then it’s apolitical. But that isn’t really how it goes unfortunately — I wish it did. Instead it’s about celebrating and glorifying our troops and our military which is super political.
        goatinaboat 6y ago
        Instead it’s about celebrating and glorifying our troops and our military which is super political. How is it political - what party do you think it supports?
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > How is it political - what party do you think it supports? Partisan != political. (Though everything is in my opinion political.)
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      I think the general cultural consensus is WWI is the fault of Europe's leaders, particularly but not completely that of Germany. And was characterized by a callous disregard for soldiers lives on all sides.
      - vkou 6y ago
        That's not the impression I get from the Canadian Remembrance day posts I see on Facebook ever year. Without fail, all of them describe WWI as a stalwart selfless sacrifice for freedom and the motherland. Then I ask 'exactly what freedoms were at risk', and the authors of those posts start hemming and hawing and tut-tutting. I wouldn't go as far as to claim that wearing a poppy is a statement for any of the possible interpretations of Remembrance day in particular, though.
  - drewcoo 6y ago
    War is the continuation of politics by other means. - Carl von Clausewitz
  - lopmotr 6y ago
    It is political. It glorifies war and being the aggressor in war. I my country, it's mainly used to represent the time we tried to invade what is now Turkey and killed a bunch of the locals defending their territory. Anti-war people don't like it.
    - criddell 6y ago
      That's not at all what the poppy campaign or the Canadian Legion is all about.
      - monkeycantype 6y ago
        I believe lompotor is from Australia, and is referring in particular to the landing at Gallipoli, in which the British empire was attempting to land in what is now Turkey with support of forces from Commonwealth countries, this certainly included people from Newfoundland. Over the last 25 years, conservative politicians in Australia have have politicised the remembrance of this battle.
    - reaperducer 6y ago
      It glorifies war. So putting a photo of my dead wife on my desk at work glorifies car crashes? Got it.
      - pueblito 6y ago
        I am sorry for your loss
      - DubiousPusher 6y ago
        That analogy doesn't map by my logic. It would be more like putting up a plaque that says, "I'm proud of my brother for engaging in risk taking behavior until it caused him to crash his car and die." Also, victims of car crashes aren't generally used in national pageantry aimed at causing more car crashes.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
  - tclancy 6y ago
    Perhaps in Canada, but James McLean may feel differently about the poppy being political. https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-poppy-has-made-him-t-1830233186 https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-popp...
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  From the article: "I was basically told … if they allowed this one particular cause, then it would open up the door so that they would have to allow or consider allowing other causes," said the employee.
- NikolaNovak 6y ago
  >>What's the political statement made by wearing a poppy? I haven't the foggiest. But it's a fund-raising campaign run by a non-governmental entity. I don't think it's political or controversial. But most non-governmental fund-raising campaigns will also claim they are non-controversial and non-political, so why can't they get a uniform-code exception supported by provincial and federal prime minister? >>Did Whole Foods make a political statement when they enacted the poppy ban? I think Whole Foods have a uniform policy that says "wear no insignia other than these things", and as such it's as a-political as things can get these days. In principle, making an exception for this one cause is formally the political statement. As I said, I think it's a case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I happen to agree with this particular cause and am glad it's receiving support, but I don't necessarily know what objective differentiator we can write down, agree and use that would fit the poppy campaign but not million others.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > But it's a fund-raising campaign run by a non-governmental entity. No a poppy is not inherently part of a any fund-raising. It's a symbol of remembrance. You can buy poppies from anywhere, or make your own, and still be using it to remember.
    - theabsurdman 6y ago
      This is incorrect. The poppy is actually trademarked in Canada: https://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/the-poppy-trademark https://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/the-poppy-tradem...
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        That doesn't stop people making their own, or wearing an old one.
        Kranar 6y ago
        In Canada, the poppy is a legally protected symbol that can only be used under permission by the Royal Canadian Legion. It enjoys not only trademark status but additional special legislation that protects the symbol from being used for any purpose other than remembrance and places the symbol under the exclusive care of the Royal Canadian Legion.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  Ask these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Canada
  - criddell 6y ago
    I don't think conscientious objectors are opposed to support services for veterans and the families of veterans.
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      This one is against the glorification of war though. I do actually support helping any person for humanitarian reasons though.
  - DubiousPusher 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm basically in agreement. I don't care if people wear them because I don't mind people expressing their opinions which disagree with mine. But I see the veins of martialism spread throughout western society. They are taken for granted because they are the status quo. They had a profound effect on me as a kid to see war as noble and worthwhile. If one may wear a pin to honor war dead, may one wear a pin for those that refused to fight?
- tomjen3 6y ago
  It was an attempt to paint those who were killed in WWI (on the British side only) as not pointlessly and deliberately slaughtered, or at lest it seems so to me.
- youngNed 6y ago
  Not related to this particular set of countries, but the wearing of a poppy is very very political for those from Northern Ireland: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/why-james-mcclean-doesn-t-wear-poppy-west-brom-remembrance-poppy-appeal-a8037391.html https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/...

criddell 6y ago

What's the political statement made by wearing a poppy? Did Whole Foods make a political statement when they enacted the poppy ban?

maxk42 6y ago
It's not political. It's done to remember those who died in combat. Many people have a relative or loved one who died in combat.
- robertfw 6y ago
  I would argue that focusing solely on the nobility of those who died in combat while ignoring what led to them being forced into combat in the first place, is political. I think the poppy, and Remembrance Day in general, spends far too little time examining _why_ these people were sent to die.
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    Sounds like you're saying it's political for being insufficiently political.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I’m not about to wade into Canadian culture because I know just enough to be very wrong so I hope it’s fine to use a US parallel. If Memorial Day was “celebrate the individual personal lives and accomplishments of all these people who died at war” then it’s apolitical. But that isn’t really how it goes unfortunately — I wish it did. Instead it’s about celebrating and glorifying our troops and our military which is super political.
      - goatinaboat 6y ago
        Instead it’s about celebrating and glorifying our troops and our military which is super political. How is it political - what party do you think it supports?
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > How is it political - what party do you think it supports? Partisan != political. (Though everything is in my opinion political.)
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    I think the general cultural consensus is WWI is the fault of Europe's leaders, particularly but not completely that of Germany. And was characterized by a callous disregard for soldiers lives on all sides.
    - vkou 6y ago
      That's not the impression I get from the Canadian Remembrance day posts I see on Facebook ever year. Without fail, all of them describe WWI as a stalwart selfless sacrifice for freedom and the motherland. Then I ask 'exactly what freedoms were at risk', and the authors of those posts start hemming and hawing and tut-tutting. I wouldn't go as far as to claim that wearing a poppy is a statement for any of the possible interpretations of Remembrance day in particular, though.
- drewcoo 6y ago
  War is the continuation of politics by other means. - Carl von Clausewitz
- lopmotr 6y ago
  It is political. It glorifies war and being the aggressor in war. I my country, it's mainly used to represent the time we tried to invade what is now Turkey and killed a bunch of the locals defending their territory. Anti-war people don't like it.
  - criddell 6y ago
    That's not at all what the poppy campaign or the Canadian Legion is all about.
    - monkeycantype 6y ago
      I believe lompotor is from Australia, and is referring in particular to the landing at Gallipoli, in which the British empire was attempting to land in what is now Turkey with support of forces from Commonwealth countries, this certainly included people from Newfoundland. Over the last 25 years, conservative politicians in Australia have have politicised the remembrance of this battle.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    It glorifies war. So putting a photo of my dead wife on my desk at work glorifies car crashes? Got it.
    - pueblito 6y ago
      I am sorry for your loss
    - DubiousPusher 6y ago
      That analogy doesn't map by my logic. It would be more like putting up a plaque that says, "I'm proud of my brother for engaging in risk taking behavior until it caused him to crash his car and die." Also, victims of car crashes aren't generally used in national pageantry aimed at causing more car crashes.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
- tclancy 6y ago
  Perhaps in Canada, but James McLean may feel differently about the poppy being political. https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-poppy-has-made-him-t-1830233186 https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-popp...
redis_mlc 6y ago
From the article: "I was basically told … if they allowed this one particular cause, then it would open up the door so that they would have to allow or consider allowing other causes," said the employee.
NikolaNovak 6y ago
>>What's the political statement made by wearing a poppy? I haven't the foggiest. But it's a fund-raising campaign run by a non-governmental entity. I don't think it's political or controversial. But most non-governmental fund-raising campaigns will also claim they are non-controversial and non-political, so why can't they get a uniform-code exception supported by provincial and federal prime minister? >>Did Whole Foods make a political statement when they enacted the poppy ban? I think Whole Foods have a uniform policy that says "wear no insignia other than these things", and as such it's as a-political as things can get these days. In principle, making an exception for this one cause is formally the political statement. As I said, I think it's a case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I happen to agree with this particular cause and am glad it's receiving support, but I don't necessarily know what objective differentiator we can write down, agree and use that would fit the poppy campaign but not million others.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > But it's a fund-raising campaign run by a non-governmental entity. No a poppy is not inherently part of a any fund-raising. It's a symbol of remembrance. You can buy poppies from anywhere, or make your own, and still be using it to remember.
  - theabsurdman 6y ago
    This is incorrect. The poppy is actually trademarked in Canada: https://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/the-poppy-trademark https://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/the-poppy-tradem...
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      That doesn't stop people making their own, or wearing an old one.
      - Kranar 6y ago
        In Canada, the poppy is a legally protected symbol that can only be used under permission by the Royal Canadian Legion. It enjoys not only trademark status but additional special legislation that protects the symbol from being used for any purpose other than remembrance and places the symbol under the exclusive care of the Royal Canadian Legion.
maerF0x0 6y ago
Ask these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Canada
- criddell 6y ago
  I don't think conscientious objectors are opposed to support services for veterans and the families of veterans.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    This one is against the glorification of war though. I do actually support helping any person for humanitarian reasons though.
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm basically in agreement. I don't care if people wear them because I don't mind people expressing their opinions which disagree with mine. But I see the veins of martialism spread throughout western society. They are taken for granted because they are the status quo. They had a profound effect on me as a kid to see war as noble and worthwhile. If one may wear a pin to honor war dead, may one wear a pin for those that refused to fight?
tomjen3 6y ago
It was an attempt to paint those who were killed in WWI (on the British side only) as not pointlessly and deliberately slaughtered, or at lest it seems so to me.
youngNed 6y ago
Not related to this particular set of countries, but the wearing of a poppy is very very political for those from Northern Ireland: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/why-james-mcclean-doesn-t-wear-poppy-west-brom-remembrance-poppy-appeal-a8037391.html https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/...