4 ms·

I think they have lost a lot of their best employees because their pay is not that great. They aimed for paying at the 50th percentile in wages and the top comp

by graton 6y ago

I think they have lost a lot of their best employees because their pay is not that great. They aimed for paying at the 50th percentile in wages and the top companies come in and can offer double or more their current pay. Doesn't help they switched from large cubes with five-foot high cubicle walls which did a good job on minimizing noise and visual distractions to having cubicle walls with a height of about 3-4 feet high and much smaller. Plus they installed sit-stand desks and you have people stand and make phone calls that can be heard 30 feet away. Doesn't help for concentrating on problems.

UncleOxidant 6y ago
Yes on both counts. I was contacted a couple years back about a machine learning contracting gig. When I asked what the hourly rate was the recruiter said $45/hour. I laughed and said that the going rate for that kind of skill set is like $120+/hour. That has not been an isolated incident.
- icelancer 6y ago
  >> $120+/hour Even this would be a substantial discount for most qualified people.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    I'm not qualified and get that rate
    - bigmattystyles 6y ago
      You would be surprised what you can get just by asking.
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    Given the company, it's usually long-term contracts that more closely resemble full-time employment. The location is also usually outside of the biggest, most expensive cities. $120/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 50 wks/yr = $240K before self-employment taxes and paying for insurance. Ends up being comparable to typical compensation in cities that aren't SF, Seattle, or other top-tier markets. Now if someone was doing more typical ad-hoc freelance work on a project basis, $120/hr might be too low for typical work. However, $90-120/hr as a contractor with a long-term contract and stable pay over 12-18 months is not uncommon. Unless someone has a lot of new, small contracts knocking at their door nonstop, it can make more financial sense to take a $120/hr long-term contract over sporadic $200+/hr work that changes month to month.
    - RandomBK 6y ago
      Very true, though it'll depend on the seniority of the position. $240K/yr, minus self-employment taxes, insurance, and other overhead, not to mention the lack of other non-monetary benefits and comp, is not a lot for someone doing serious machine learning. I'd imagine that the type of specialized talent that Intel needs to catch up to AMD have plenty of options open to them. A comp strategy based on median industry comp might work to maintain their position, but probably won't churn out new industry-leading tech needed to jump ahead.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    For a contractor? You can do better than that making dashboards.
- amelius 6y ago
  $120 is about a third of what my accountant charges per hour.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    > $120 is about a third of what my accountant charges per hour. Some professions typically require both a related degree and one or more certifications or licenses. Accounting is one of those (CPA, CMA, CFA, CISA, CIA, EA) and this ends up being reflected in the hourly rate.
jp42 6y ago
This is so true. I have friends whose managers told them - "the only way to get more pay is to leave intel", "our hands are tied, we cant give more pay or promo", " to get more pay and promotion, one option is to leave intel and then come back"...all of these folks are in FAANG now.
- elihu 6y ago
  There is another option, it's just a lot harder than leaving and rarely said out loud. Which is to organize.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    > There is another option, it's just a lot harder than leaving and rarely said out loud. Which is to organize. That harder work seems to only get done when you can't leave (or when leaving doesn't get results).
scrooched_moose 6y ago
Man I hate that attitude. My company pulls that on absolutely every benefit asked about. "We've done a survey and our pay and benefits are on par for the industry" = we are proud to be a profoundly mediocre place to work in every possible way. Can't wait for this pandemic to end and the market for my industry/region to pick up again.
dweekly 6y ago
Pay at Intel is about half of FAANG, can confirm. They seem weirdly proud of this and then weirdly confused and disappointed when great people leave.
- hinkley 6y ago
  So did Apple just sashay in and poach half of the best people?
  - seanmclo 6y ago
    Yes. In PDX, Azure recently had a big hiring frenzy and there was a lot of attrition as well.
- BostonEnginerd 6y ago
  This is a routine issue in the semiconductor industry. Payscales haven't keep up with software across that whole industry. The trade organizations are aware of this, but I haven't seen a lot of push to level the playing field. It's unfortunate, as there are lots of really fascinating problems to solve on the materials and integration side. The industry trade organization did make a snazzy movie to try to attract young graduates into the industry. https://yourewelcome.org/en/ https://yourewelcome.org/en/
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    The pandemic advertising was prescient.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Pay disparity is something that you’ve gotta fix early on. If you wait until the results of losing top level talent are finally being felt by everyone, then chances are your business might not have enough cash left to rectify the problem.
    - kayoone 6y ago
      This is generally true however Intel still has and makes tons of cash, especially compared to AMD. It will take them some time to recover from this though, in this industry it can easily mean 5+ years.
seanmclo 6y ago
Intel employee. Can confirm all of the above.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  You should be a FAANG employee!
- rossjudson 6y ago
  I bet executive pay is great.
baskire 6y ago
They also focused on diversity hiring vs focusing on hiring top talent.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- webmaven 6y ago
  > They also focused on diversity hiring vs focusing on hiring top talent. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
  - loco5niner 6y ago
    Because you can focus on more than one thing? Focusing on one of these naturally excludes the other.
    - webmaven 6y ago
      I'm interpreting 'focus' as 'prioritize' or something similar, rather than 'attend to, to the exclusion of all other concerns'. You can have more than one priority, even though you can't have more than one TOP priority.

by graton 6y ago

UncleOxidant 6y ago

Yes on both counts. I was contacted a couple years back about a machine learning contracting gig. When I asked what the hourly rate was the recruiter said $45/hour. I laughed and said that the going rate for that kind of skill set is like $120+/hour. That has not been an isolated incident.

icelancer 6y ago
>> $120+/hour Even this would be a substantial discount for most qualified people.
- edoceo 6y ago
  I'm not qualified and get that rate
  - bigmattystyles 6y ago
    You would be surprised what you can get just by asking.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Given the company, it's usually long-term contracts that more closely resemble full-time employment. The location is also usually outside of the biggest, most expensive cities. $120/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 50 wks/yr = $240K before self-employment taxes and paying for insurance. Ends up being comparable to typical compensation in cities that aren't SF, Seattle, or other top-tier markets. Now if someone was doing more typical ad-hoc freelance work on a project basis, $120/hr might be too low for typical work. However, $90-120/hr as a contractor with a long-term contract and stable pay over 12-18 months is not uncommon. Unless someone has a lot of new, small contracts knocking at their door nonstop, it can make more financial sense to take a $120/hr long-term contract over sporadic $200+/hr work that changes month to month.
  - RandomBK 6y ago
    Very true, though it'll depend on the seniority of the position. $240K/yr, minus self-employment taxes, insurance, and other overhead, not to mention the lack of other non-monetary benefits and comp, is not a lot for someone doing serious machine learning. I'd imagine that the type of specialized talent that Intel needs to catch up to AMD have plenty of options open to them. A comp strategy based on median industry comp might work to maintain their position, but probably won't churn out new industry-leading tech needed to jump ahead.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  For a contractor? You can do better than that making dashboards.
amelius 6y ago
$120 is about a third of what my accountant charges per hour.
- webmaven 6y ago
  > $120 is about a third of what my accountant charges per hour. Some professions typically require both a related degree and one or more certifications or licenses. Accounting is one of those (CPA, CMA, CFA, CISA, CIA, EA) and this ends up being reflected in the hourly rate.

jp42 6y ago

This is so true. I have friends whose managers told them - "the only way to get more pay is to leave intel", "our hands are tied, we cant give more pay or promo", " to get more pay and promotion, one option is to leave intel and then come back"...all of these folks are in FAANG now.

elihu 6y ago
There is another option, it's just a lot harder than leaving and rarely said out loud. Which is to organize.
- webmaven 6y ago
  > There is another option, it's just a lot harder than leaving and rarely said out loud. Which is to organize. That harder work seems to only get done when you can't leave (or when leaving doesn't get results).

scrooched_moose 6y ago

Man I hate that attitude. My company pulls that on absolutely every benefit asked about. "We've done a survey and our pay and benefits are on par for the industry" = we are proud to be a profoundly mediocre place to work in every possible way. Can't wait for this pandemic to end and the market for my industry/region to pick up again.

dweekly 6y ago

Pay at Intel is about half of FAANG, can confirm. They seem weirdly proud of this and then weirdly confused and disappointed when great people leave.

hinkley 6y ago
So did Apple just sashay in and poach half of the best people?
- seanmclo 6y ago
  Yes. In PDX, Azure recently had a big hiring frenzy and there was a lot of attrition as well.
BostonEnginerd 6y ago
This is a routine issue in the semiconductor industry. Payscales haven't keep up with software across that whole industry. The trade organizations are aware of this, but I haven't seen a lot of push to level the playing field. It's unfortunate, as there are lots of really fascinating problems to solve on the materials and integration side. The industry trade organization did make a snazzy movie to try to attract young graduates into the industry. https://yourewelcome.org/en/ https://yourewelcome.org/en/
- sebmellen 6y ago
  The pandemic advertising was prescient.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Pay disparity is something that you’ve gotta fix early on. If you wait until the results of losing top level talent are finally being felt by everyone, then chances are your business might not have enough cash left to rectify the problem.
  - kayoone 6y ago
    This is generally true however Intel still has and makes tons of cash, especially compared to AMD. It will take them some time to recover from this though, in this industry it can easily mean 5+ years.

seanmclo 6y ago

Intel employee. Can confirm all of the above.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
You should be a FAANG employee!
rossjudson 6y ago
I bet executive pay is great.

baskire 6y ago

They also focused on diversity hiring vs focusing on hiring top talent.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
webmaven 6y ago
> They also focused on diversity hiring vs focusing on hiring top talent. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
- loco5niner 6y ago
  Because you can focus on more than one thing? Focusing on one of these naturally excludes the other.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    I'm interpreting 'focus' as 'prioritize' or something similar, rather than 'attend to, to the exclusion of all other concerns'. You can have more than one priority, even though you can't have more than one TOP priority.