5 ms·

The US needs to do whatever it takes to get TSMC to build not only top-tier fabs but centers of excellence here. As it stands TSMC on Taiwan, which is threatene

by api 6y ago

The US needs to do whatever it takes to get TSMC to build not only top-tier fabs but centers of excellence here. As it stands TSMC on Taiwan, which is threatened by China, has damn near a monopoly on competitive fabrication. A single hit on Taiwan could terminally stall the entire global supply chain for top-tier chips.

rasz 6y ago
Why would Taiwan let TSMC move its operations away and thus weaken Taiwans U.S. Defense Guarantees?
- hydroreadsstuff 6y ago
  Who would've thought that high-end chip manufacturing could be a (n enormous) bargaining chip.
  - redisman 6y ago
    Someone who can think long term I guess
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    The same people behind the Intel ME, AMD PSP, etc, etc. Silicon backdoors are the new nukes.
- corty 6y ago
  It can be a mutually beneficial arrangement, perhaps letting TSMC US produce some defence-relevant silicon and providing a safe haven and nest-egg for Taiwans elites in case of invasion/unification.
  - nolok 6y ago
    That is not a beneficial arrangement for the Taiwanese population, compared to "if Taiwan fall this capability is lost, defending the island is absolutely necessary".
rossdavidh 6y ago
Well Samsung has quite a bit of top-notch fabrication, in South Korea and elsewhere. Not that what you're suggesting wouldn't still be a good idea.
redisman 6y ago
Taiwans international relations are pretty delicate. I’m not sure if there is a lot that they want to change right now. Controlling the manufacturing of top end microchips is exactly the kind of card a small “neutral” country with a scary neighbor wants up their sleeve. Sure you could have a US embassy and recognize their sovereignty and put a military base and park some destroyers there but that would be a serious escalation with China.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Think on decades time scale, electron based turing machines are asymptoting in design, there isn’t much space for someone to be ahead until we start making optical computers.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  Apple has a huge war chest. Let's hope they use it to advance the state of the art.
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  Keep dreaming. Electrons interact with each other, photons don't.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Not directly, but you can do really clever things with nonlinearity, look at this recent development: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320... Essentially, if you trap a few photons in little resonator cavities that rely on mostly all of the electrons making up the cavity, the next set of photons can pass through the cavity without interaction. This means the light interacts with engineered electrons in a specific way to create an optical switch. This is a critical component of photonics on a chip, and was just demonstrated with Si (which is a requirement for something in the mid term).
    - octoberfranklin 6y ago
      People have been doing "neat hacks" with nonlinear optics for a long time. None of it is remotely close to being usable as a photon-controlled photon gate. All-optical switching (i.e. photonic computing) is like fusion power generation. It's been "right around the corner" for 20 years, yet we never seem to round the bend. It is, however, great for physicists writing grant applications. > look at this recent development: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320 https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320... This was on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24997573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24997573 My response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25012670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25012670 Summary: this is converting information from the photonic domain to the thermal domain. Heat diffuses very slowly; you won't be able to put a lot of these devices near each other and run them at usable speeds without them causing each other thermal interference.
octoberfranklin 6y ago
That is impossible. TSMC will never build that fab. TSMC is now the only reason Taiwan can count on the US coming to its defense when China invades. You can't put a price tag on that.

by api 6y ago

rasz 6y ago

Why would Taiwan let TSMC move its operations away and thus weaken Taiwans U.S. Defense Guarantees?

hydroreadsstuff 6y ago
Who would've thought that high-end chip manufacturing could be a (n enormous) bargaining chip.
- redisman 6y ago
  Someone who can think long term I guess
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  The same people behind the Intel ME, AMD PSP, etc, etc. Silicon backdoors are the new nukes.
corty 6y ago
It can be a mutually beneficial arrangement, perhaps letting TSMC US produce some defence-relevant silicon and providing a safe haven and nest-egg for Taiwans elites in case of invasion/unification.
- nolok 6y ago
  That is not a beneficial arrangement for the Taiwanese population, compared to "if Taiwan fall this capability is lost, defending the island is absolutely necessary".

rossdavidh 6y ago

Well Samsung has quite a bit of top-notch fabrication, in South Korea and elsewhere. Not that what you're suggesting wouldn't still be a good idea.

redisman 6y ago

Taiwans international relations are pretty delicate. I’m not sure if there is a lot that they want to change right now. Controlling the manufacturing of top end microchips is exactly the kind of card a small “neutral” country with a scary neighbor wants up their sleeve. Sure you could have a US embassy and recognize their sovereignty and put a military base and park some destroyers there but that would be a serious escalation with China.

mensetmanusman 6y ago

Think on decades time scale, electron based turing machines are asymptoting in design, there isn’t much space for someone to be ahead until we start making optical computers.

epicureanideal 6y ago
Apple has a huge war chest. Let's hope they use it to advance the state of the art.
octoberfranklin 6y ago
Keep dreaming. Electrons interact with each other, photons don't.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Not directly, but you can do really clever things with nonlinearity, look at this recent development: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320... Essentially, if you trap a few photons in little resonator cavities that rely on mostly all of the electrons making up the cavity, the next set of photons can pass through the cavity without interaction. This means the light interacts with engineered electrons in a specific way to create an optical switch. This is a critical component of photonics on a chip, and was just demonstrated with Si (which is a requirement for something in the mid term).
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    People have been doing "neat hacks" with nonlinear optics for a long time. None of it is remotely close to being usable as a photon-controlled photon gate. All-optical switching (i.e. photonic computing) is like fusion power generation. It's been "right around the corner" for 20 years, yet we never seem to round the bend. It is, however, great for physicists writing grant applications. > look at this recent development: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320 https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/ou-1ei110320... This was on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24997573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24997573 My response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25012670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25012670 Summary: this is converting information from the photonic domain to the thermal domain. Heat diffuses very slowly; you won't be able to put a lot of these devices near each other and run them at usable speeds without them causing each other thermal interference.

octoberfranklin 6y ago

That is impossible. TSMC will never build that fab. TSMC is now the only reason Taiwan can count on the US coming to its defense when China invades. You can't put a price tag on that.