6 ms·

Psilocybin therapy 4 times more effective than antidepressants, study finds

32 points by Reedx 6y ago

sigmaprimus 6y ago
>>> preliminary research has shown psilocybin to potentially be effective in helping terminal cancer patients manage end of life anxiety. This makes sense to me and should be included in the "Right to Try" legislation currently being debated. reply
trenchgun 6y ago
A critical twitter thread: https://twitter.com/clinpsychbook/status/1324061745347022850?s=20 https://twitter.com/clinpsychbook/status/1324061745347022850...
- loceng 6y ago
  I think self-selection is a fair criteria as a filter: people who are more open/open minded, perhaps have higher risk tolerance, perhaps will have a better response to something that will open up n their mind further. The issue that's currently poorly managed for and barely addressed in clinical research, as well as practical application, is the wide range of states of health that the general population has. If you give someone a medicine that temporarily removes their ego mind from the algorithm of the mind's processes but there's so much trauma hidden/repressed/suppressed and their body is in too unhealthy of a state to rebound adequately coming out of that experience then the person won't be able to land/ground again very easily, if at all; it's why individuals who've been diagnosed with schizophrenia are contraindicated from entheogen use, and even from yoga practices like kundalini and laughter yoga - which are also powerful practices of helping temporarily disconnect the control of the mind - that some people learn to cope using and completely depend on to function.
bloqs 6y ago
We also have absolutely no idea what else they might do. Psychadelics cause plenty of terrible, often irreversible negative mental health side affects as well. What is not understood about psychadelics is a startlingly deep area. This is similar (but not the same) as when they were marketing cocaine in products as a source of natural energy. Why are we taking this 1890s approach to scientific research and ignoring the silent minority whose lives have been destroyed by them?
- loceng 6y ago
  Do you have links to any relatively detailed evidence, even anecdotal? People who aren't very self-aware can also wrongly attribute an outcome to something they took, when in fact it's simply exposing them to something underlying, something their ego mind was hiding from them - suppressed/repressed unhealed/unprocessed emotional and/or physical trauma (past or active) - which will highly likely have a highly workable solution/treatment for, just that the medical systems lack of holistic approach and holistic understanding and lack of protocol causes the current institutions to be v relatively useless when trying to guide healing. For example, MDMA may cause people to feel anxious while they're on it - that's actually expected and not a problem if you're explained why it happens and you've been explained, primed with, multiple ways to process it - while being in a relatively safe space with at least one safe go-to person who you can have to talk to, as that's one of main methods of processing trauma and allowing the anxiety to rapidly melt away; it wasn't the MDMA that caused the anxiety but instead lowered the conditioning to below your baseline stress level, revealing/giving access to feelings of anxiety underlying that otherwise would be too distracting and overwhelming preventing you from being functioning day to day - instead you have the opportunity on MDMA to process them. If you take MDMA recreationally but without knowing this, without having a safe person to talk to at a moment's notice if you start feeling anxious that you can't seem to process on your own (which makes sense that could be the case the majority of the time if it's trauma that you've yet to be able to process) - if you don't know how to process that anxiety while on MDMA, and it's as simple as going somewhere quiet with a person and just starting to talk ("I feel anxious") to start dialogue - then you're going to feel bad after because you'll open yourself to anxiety but not have processed any or much of it; over days to weeks you'll get conditioned to it again to some degree, you may avoid MDMA and blame it when it was inadequate support during, and it's also why dosing is very important - as if you take too much MDMA 1) you won't remember much of the experience (as memory is part of stress response), and 2) you'll access too much, causing too much to come to the surface, and can feel very anxious for at least a week. Maps.org's research, founded by Rick Doblin, is now why the FDA is fast tracking approval for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. I also want to point out that your final sentence also should be asked for approved medications line SSRIs - which not only increase rate of suicide (and arguably homicide; suicide taking anger out on self, homicide out onto others) but also have horrendous side-effects including long term withdrawal symptoms.
pcdoodle 6y ago
Take that big pharma! Nothing like the fear of death to recalibrate against your sources of fear and depression.
AntiImperialist 6y ago
I think studying and publishing this now is a disservice to the cause. The pharmaceutical business model relies on continued treatment, not the cure. So, publishing studies like this is a surefire way of getting a whole lot of sponsored studies which show the exact opposite or some other dangers and side effects which will make sure those substances remain banned for ever. That or legitimacy of the studies or the people involved questioned or fired. At this time, this should be attacked as "legalizing for personel use as a part of defunding the police". Don't involve scientific studies AT ALL. We can get to that later.

32 points by Reedx 6y ago

>>> preliminary research has shown psilocybin to potentially be effective in helping terminal cancer patients manage end of life anxiety. This makes sense to me and should be included in the "Right to Try" legislation currently being debated. reply

trenchgun 6y ago

A critical twitter thread: https://twitter.com/clinpsychbook/status/1324061745347022850?s=20 https://twitter.com/clinpsychbook/status/1324061745347022850...

loceng 6y ago
I think self-selection is a fair criteria as a filter: people who are more open/open minded, perhaps have higher risk tolerance, perhaps will have a better response to something that will open up n their mind further. The issue that's currently poorly managed for and barely addressed in clinical research, as well as practical application, is the wide range of states of health that the general population has. If you give someone a medicine that temporarily removes their ego mind from the algorithm of the mind's processes but there's so much trauma hidden/repressed/suppressed and their body is in too unhealthy of a state to rebound adequately coming out of that experience then the person won't be able to land/ground again very easily, if at all; it's why individuals who've been diagnosed with schizophrenia are contraindicated from entheogen use, and even from yoga practices like kundalini and laughter yoga - which are also powerful practices of helping temporarily disconnect the control of the mind - that some people learn to cope using and completely depend on to function.

bloqs 6y ago

We also have absolutely no idea what else they might do. Psychadelics cause plenty of terrible, often irreversible negative mental health side affects as well. What is not understood about psychadelics is a startlingly deep area. This is similar (but not the same) as when they were marketing cocaine in products as a source of natural energy. Why are we taking this 1890s approach to scientific research and ignoring the silent minority whose lives have been destroyed by them?

loceng 6y ago
Do you have links to any relatively detailed evidence, even anecdotal? People who aren't very self-aware can also wrongly attribute an outcome to something they took, when in fact it's simply exposing them to something underlying, something their ego mind was hiding from them - suppressed/repressed unhealed/unprocessed emotional and/or physical trauma (past or active) - which will highly likely have a highly workable solution/treatment for, just that the medical systems lack of holistic approach and holistic understanding and lack of protocol causes the current institutions to be v relatively useless when trying to guide healing. For example, MDMA may cause people to feel anxious while they're on it - that's actually expected and not a problem if you're explained why it happens and you've been explained, primed with, multiple ways to process it - while being in a relatively safe space with at least one safe go-to person who you can have to talk to, as that's one of main methods of processing trauma and allowing the anxiety to rapidly melt away; it wasn't the MDMA that caused the anxiety but instead lowered the conditioning to below your baseline stress level, revealing/giving access to feelings of anxiety underlying that otherwise would be too distracting and overwhelming preventing you from being functioning day to day - instead you have the opportunity on MDMA to process them. If you take MDMA recreationally but without knowing this, without having a safe person to talk to at a moment's notice if you start feeling anxious that you can't seem to process on your own (which makes sense that could be the case the majority of the time if it's trauma that you've yet to be able to process) - if you don't know how to process that anxiety while on MDMA, and it's as simple as going somewhere quiet with a person and just starting to talk ("I feel anxious") to start dialogue - then you're going to feel bad after because you'll open yourself to anxiety but not have processed any or much of it; over days to weeks you'll get conditioned to it again to some degree, you may avoid MDMA and blame it when it was inadequate support during, and it's also why dosing is very important - as if you take too much MDMA 1) you won't remember much of the experience (as memory is part of stress response), and 2) you'll access too much, causing too much to come to the surface, and can feel very anxious for at least a week. Maps.org's research, founded by Rick Doblin, is now why the FDA is fast tracking approval for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. I also want to point out that your final sentence also should be asked for approved medications line SSRIs - which not only increase rate of suicide (and arguably homicide; suicide taking anger out on self, homicide out onto others) but also have horrendous side-effects including long term withdrawal symptoms.

pcdoodle 6y ago

Take that big pharma! Nothing like the fear of death to recalibrate against your sources of fear and depression.

AntiImperialist 6y ago

I think studying and publishing this now is a disservice to the cause. The pharmaceutical business model relies on continued treatment, not the cure. So, publishing studies like this is a surefire way of getting a whole lot of sponsored studies which show the exact opposite or some other dangers and side effects which will make sure those substances remain banned for ever. That or legitimacy of the studies or the people involved questioned or fired. At this time, this should be attacked as "legalizing for personel use as a part of defunding the police". Don't involve scientific studies AT ALL. We can get to that later.