4 ms·

Why this is as advantage as a weapon over a submarine just launching a conventional missile which can be 10x the speed of the supercavitating torpedo. A Harpoon

by yborg 6y ago

Why this is as advantage as a weapon over a submarine just launching a conventional missile which can be 10x the speed of the supercavitating torpedo. A Harpoon missile has a warhead almost the exact same size as a Shkval, twice the speed and 25x the range, and it can guide itself to the target. If you want to shoot a rocket at something, why try to fly it through water in the first place?

drevell 6y ago
It's a good question. Modern ships have both anti-missile missiles and guns. Anti-torpedo torpedoes exist but AFAIK aren't widely deployed.
nradov 6y ago
A torpedo can be used against underwater targets (including other torpedoes). They also allow the launching platform to remain at least somewhat covert, whereas launching a missile creates a really obvious datum.
- yborg 6y ago
  ASROC could be launched from a submarine against other submarines. And a missile can be launched over the horizon and change it's approach angle radically before closing with the target. The Shkval basically can only travel in a straight line, and given its speed and short range the launching sub won't be able to do much evasion. The supercavitating torpedo is also traveling at high speed in a bubble of fizzing seawater, it must make a tremendous racket while approaching, there really isn't anything covert about it.
sho 6y ago
Apart from the other reasons listed, modern battle groups are equipped with close-in weapons systems like the Phalanx which have a decent chance of shooting down inbound airborne missiles, especially if they're not ballistic. That and the fact you can launch underwater without disclosing your position makes it a pretty compelling weapon.
baybal2 6y ago
> If you want to shoot a rocket at something, why try to fly it through water in the first place? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-6_Vodopad/RPK-7_Veter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-6_Vodopad/RPK-7_Veter Actually, and anti-sub weapon, and very "funny" one. Apparently, it was puzzling NATO intel analysts up until the collapse of the union. Launches underwater, like a torpedo, fires an SRB, maneuvers out of the water, flies to withing few kilometres of the target, and turns into torpedo again. It originated from a no less eccentric weapon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metel_Anti-Ship_Complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metel_Anti-Ship_Complex An ASROC lookalike, with a twist. In it, the torpedo, and the carrier rocket both carry a warhead. So, in an anti-shipping mode, the ship gets hit, first, by the missile, and, then, it's torpedo, so as to maximally confuse the enemy.
- bigbubba 6y ago
  What's really wild is when they launch these from the side of ships. The missile/torpedo starts above the water, dips into the water then launches out, flies above the water then eventually dives back in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4dy90rzZNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4dy90rzZNY
  - choonway 6y ago
    that way, you can launch your missiles and conventional torpedos from the same launcher. torpedoes are generally more survivable than antiship missiles.
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  What is SRB?
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Solid rocket booster
JohnBooty 6y ago
The largest factor, among many? If you are hoping to sink a ship by making a hole in it... you generally need to make the hole underwater. =)
jjk166 6y ago
Torpedoes and missiles kill in a fundamentally different way. Missiles impact the target (or in very close proximity) and explode producing concussive damage - very effective against anything sensitive to pressure like personnel. However an appropriately armored target can be made to survive these explosions. Hundreds of kilograms of explosive can do quite a bit of damage, but ships weighing hundreds of millions of kilograms can be made to tank such hits. Modern torpedoes explode below a ship. This explosion creates a void of high pressure, low density steam in the surrounding much denser water. As this bubble rises due to bouyancy, the pressure difference causes it to expand. Eventually momentum causes it to over-expand, and the void collapses, creating an extremely high pressure region in the center, which re-expands. This keeps happening as the void keeps rising. If detonated at the appropriate depth, by the time it reaches the surface the bubble has expanded into a massive void comparable to the size of the ship. When it breaks the surface, the steam pressurizing it internally is released, and the void collapses rapidly. With the water underneath it's center suddenly gone, the ship's weight is now only supported on its ends, and it bends like an overloaded beam. Within fractions of a second, the water that rushed to the center of the void reaching extremely high pressures now takes the path of least resistance to rebound, which happens to take it straight through the most stressed part of the ship. This geyser acts like a waterjet, cutting right through the ship. On top of all this, for a well designed torpedo, those fluctuations of the bubble on its way up weren't random: the frequency of its cycles is close to the resonance frequency of its hull. Much like how a wine glass can be shattered by an opera singer hitting the right note, the ship is especially susceptible to energy delivered at its resonance frequency. The largest supercarriers may be too big to be sunk by a single conventional torpedo, but anything smaller will sink within minutes of a successful hit. Now to achieve these results, torpedoes are far more expensive than comparably sized missiles, and of course they have much shorter range and speed. Missiles are more versatile and for many purposes totally sufficient. But if you suspect a hostile navy is sailing towards your shores, a few torpedo boats in strategic chokepoints that can each take out any vessel in one hit might be game changing.

by yborg 6y ago

drevell 6y ago

It's a good question. Modern ships have both anti-missile missiles and guns. Anti-torpedo torpedoes exist but AFAIK aren't widely deployed.

nradov 6y ago

A torpedo can be used against underwater targets (including other torpedoes). They also allow the launching platform to remain at least somewhat covert, whereas launching a missile creates a really obvious datum.

yborg 6y ago
ASROC could be launched from a submarine against other submarines. And a missile can be launched over the horizon and change it's approach angle radically before closing with the target. The Shkval basically can only travel in a straight line, and given its speed and short range the launching sub won't be able to do much evasion. The supercavitating torpedo is also traveling at high speed in a bubble of fizzing seawater, it must make a tremendous racket while approaching, there really isn't anything covert about it.

sho 6y ago

Apart from the other reasons listed, modern battle groups are equipped with close-in weapons systems like the Phalanx which have a decent chance of shooting down inbound airborne missiles, especially if they're not ballistic. That and the fact you can launch underwater without disclosing your position makes it a pretty compelling weapon.

baybal2 6y ago

> If you want to shoot a rocket at something, why try to fly it through water in the first place? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-6_Vodopad/RPK-7_Veter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-6_Vodopad/RPK-7_Veter Actually, and anti-sub weapon, and very "funny" one. Apparently, it was puzzling NATO intel analysts up until the collapse of the union. Launches underwater, like a torpedo, fires an SRB, maneuvers out of the water, flies to withing few kilometres of the target, and turns into torpedo again. It originated from a no less eccentric weapon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metel_Anti-Ship_Complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metel_Anti-Ship_Complex An ASROC lookalike, with a twist. In it, the torpedo, and the carrier rocket both carry a warhead. So, in an anti-shipping mode, the ship gets hit, first, by the missile, and, then, it's torpedo, so as to maximally confuse the enemy.

bigbubba 6y ago
What's really wild is when they launch these from the side of ships. The missile/torpedo starts above the water, dips into the water then launches out, flies above the water then eventually dives back in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4dy90rzZNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4dy90rzZNY
- choonway 6y ago
  that way, you can launch your missiles and conventional torpedos from the same launcher. torpedoes are generally more survivable than antiship missiles.
rhn_mk1 6y ago
What is SRB?
- baybal2 6y ago
  Solid rocket booster

JohnBooty 6y ago

The largest factor, among many? If you are hoping to sink a ship by making a hole in it... you generally need to make the hole underwater. =)

jjk166 6y ago

Torpedoes and missiles kill in a fundamentally different way. Missiles impact the target (or in very close proximity) and explode producing concussive damage - very effective against anything sensitive to pressure like personnel. However an appropriately armored target can be made to survive these explosions. Hundreds of kilograms of explosive can do quite a bit of damage, but ships weighing hundreds of millions of kilograms can be made to tank such hits. Modern torpedoes explode below a ship. This explosion creates a void of high pressure, low density steam in the surrounding much denser water. As this bubble rises due to bouyancy, the pressure difference causes it to expand. Eventually momentum causes it to over-expand, and the void collapses, creating an extremely high pressure region in the center, which re-expands. This keeps happening as the void keeps rising. If detonated at the appropriate depth, by the time it reaches the surface the bubble has expanded into a massive void comparable to the size of the ship. When it breaks the surface, the steam pressurizing it internally is released, and the void collapses rapidly. With the water underneath it's center suddenly gone, the ship's weight is now only supported on its ends, and it bends like an overloaded beam. Within fractions of a second, the water that rushed to the center of the void reaching extremely high pressures now takes the path of least resistance to rebound, which happens to take it straight through the most stressed part of the ship. This geyser acts like a waterjet, cutting right through the ship. On top of all this, for a well designed torpedo, those fluctuations of the bubble on its way up weren't random: the frequency of its cycles is close to the resonance frequency of its hull. Much like how a wine glass can be shattered by an opera singer hitting the right note, the ship is especially susceptible to energy delivered at its resonance frequency. The largest supercarriers may be too big to be sunk by a single conventional torpedo, but anything smaller will sink within minutes of a successful hit. Now to achieve these results, torpedoes are far more expensive than comparably sized missiles, and of course they have much shorter range and speed. Missiles are more versatile and for many purposes totally sufficient. But if you suspect a hostile navy is sailing towards your shores, a few torpedo boats in strategic chokepoints that can each take out any vessel in one hit might be game changing.